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HR-Mickey Cloverfield Monster
Joined: 24 Nov 2002 Posts: 1844 Location: I've Got No 'billy
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2003 9:39 pm Post subject: Performer-y Stuff |
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Hi there.
I'll be your new pilot on Perfomer profession flight 247 (credentials supplied upon request!), and I wanted to take this opportunity to open the hatch for ideas, suggestions, and questions from all of you. Anything you have to offer - big, small, concise, incoherent, stream-of-thought - I'd be glad to hear it. I'm formulating a general plan of attack, and every little bit counts. |
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desiree
Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 59
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2003 7:27 am Post subject: |
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excellent!
I am excited at the prospect of dancing. I have done dancing in DR and sometimes its very difficult to 'dance' in a text based game. I hope there will be some way to 'perform' a dance without it looking like it does in DR. We use the act verb in DR but I feel it's distracting with the (quotes) around it plus it limits you a bit and doesn't let it flow...
act kneels down on the ground, bows her head and waits for the music to begin.
you see...
(Chiana kneels down on the ground, bows her head and waits for the music to begin)
kneel
You kneel
Chiana kneels
Is there anyway to actually kneel while doing the action instead of performing it separately? or when you stand back up instead of standing after the action? These are techincal questions but to make the dance look smooth and look like a dancer, you need to get rid of the darned (quotes) and make it flow much nicer. Ya know?
Also curious if we will be able to have music playing as we dance? It's difficult in DR because its hard to coordinate. You could have a drum beat start slowly then increase in intensity as the dancer's movements increase... does that make sense?
Akaara is my dancer and singer _________________ ~ The longer the night lasts, the more our dreams will be. ~ |
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desiree
Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 59
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2003 7:47 am Post subject: |
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More dancing...
perhaps to become a better dancer you'd need to practice different forms of dancing.
Ballet
Tribal
Freestyle
Hip-Hop
Jazz
And have some simple dance scripts that grow as you gain skill then eventually you can add some of your own descriptions to the dances or create your own.
I would not want to limit a performer though by having to just study Ballet for example unless they want to persue that more than the rest. I'd probably dabble in a few and be really good at one form.
If you need an assistant to help... send me a PM. I'd be willing to be a test subject or guinea pig for ya :> _________________ ~ The longer the night lasts, the more our dreams will be. ~ |
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HR-Trevor Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002 Posts: 6683 Location: Louisville, KY
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2003 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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BTW I'll leave the dancing etc stuff to Mickey, but for reference... ACT in Haelrahv does not have parenthesis around it. _________________ "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy |
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Brokyn LLAMA SECHS
Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 3648 Location: Northern Georgia
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2003 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Desiree, you beat me to posting all of that. At least you saved me the trouble, I guess.
I agree that it'd be neat if Performers could train themselves in certain forms of dancing, especially when those forms of dancing come with their own system-ized scripts (for those, like me, that cannot intricately describe movements, as dance would require).
For my own suggestion, though, I'd offer up a somewhat unique (I think it is, anyway) idea: instead of basing dancing abilities -- if you create different styles in which to learn -- completely on Skill, try incorporating some kind of "time spent" counter in conjuction with skill. The reason I would want this is so that you don't have people pumping points into Dance until they get uber amounts into it, only to go to some Dance Master and suddenly know everything there is to know about that particular style. There should be some actual time spent practicing the moves (read: working the internal script). Skill Points should not only lower the amount of time it would take to move up to the next "level" in that style, but also moderate how far the character can actually move in that style.
Does that make sense? I doubt this should be Performer-only, simply because almost everyone can or wants to dance at one point in their lives, but they should obviously have a bonus to it.. as well as a few extra bonus levels in each style. ....This is me stating the obvious, enjoy.
Oh, and one more thing. Can there possibly be race-specific dance styles? I'd really like to see an Alteri ceremonial dance.
--William
PS: I don't know who I sent it to originally, but they told me that they forwarded a proposal to reorganize the Spellsongs to Trevor. I've got it saved somewhere, but you could always pester Trevor to forward it to you, I guess. _________________
Haelrahv Wiki!
++Brown Nosing Points |
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HR-Mickey Cloverfield Monster
Joined: 24 Nov 2002 Posts: 1844 Location: I've Got No 'billy
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Zowie. I didn't expect this much feedback so soon. I'll touch on the stuff that immediately stood out to me, to start.
desiree wrote: |
Is there anyway to actually kneel while doing the action instead of performing it separately? or when you stand back up instead of standing after the action? |
I'm not sure if it'd be feasibly possible or not, although (unfortunately) I'd be more inclined to believe the latter. If the stand/kneel commands were designed to interpret anything that didn't correlate with nearby furniture as an act ("kneel mat" vs. "kneel and beats the ground with his head", for example), it might be another case entirely.
desiree wrote: |
Also curious if we will be able to have music playing as we dance? It's difficult in DR because its hard to coordinate. You could have a drum beat start slowly then increase in intensity as the dancer's movements increase... does that make sense? |
I think I've got the gist of it, but music in what sense? Like, sequentially-timed messages or something to that effect? That would work in terms of standard time, but isn't possible in true measures (as in, computing real seconds as opposed to trying to break down something like 4/4 or 3/4 time).
brokyn wrote: |
I agree that it'd be neat if Performers could train themselves in certain forms of dancing, especially when those forms of dancing come with their own system-ized scripts (for those, like me, that cannot intricately describe movements, as dance would require). |
I'm a reasonable fan of the idea of preconceived dance styles and specific dances, as well as freeform. To take it one step in the Performer direction (and borrow a page from the Spellsongs), it's conceivable that there could be dances that are exclusive to the level of finesse that only a Performer could bring. Sure, a bureaucrat can do the Jitterbug, but can s/he perform a meticulous rendition of Swan Lake?
brokyn wrote: |
Oh, and one more thing. Can there possibly be race-specific dance styles? I'd really like to see an Alteri ceremonial dance. |
You and me, both. I wholly concur.
Thanks for the input so far. Keep it coming! |
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desiree
Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 59
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Is there no way to code it so that when kneel shows up, you automatically kneel? Or the same with stand, lie down etc. Could you code it so that it applies only when you're performing? If you're gonna lay on something then I understand why it cannot be done.
Music, I was talking about sequentially-timed messages and having a performance or practice area where we could pick out music or have the band play for us. It looks silly when you are supposed to be dancing and there is not even a drum or bard in the whole area
I think singing is pretty straight forward, isn't it?
Playing instruments, not something I'll probably do unless I have to.
Other performance ideas:
Mimes on street corners
Poetry... be able to write your own book
Put on a play... have areas where you could set a stage and have a play, maybe have a playwriter, scripts and rent costumes etc.
I have not yet had all my coffee so forgive me if I am lacking details at this point.
Desi _________________ ~ The longer the night lasts, the more our dreams will be. ~ |
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HR-Arden
Joined: 15 Nov 2002 Posts: 460 Location: Abbindolare
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 11:39 am Post subject: |
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desiree wrote: |
Put on a play... have areas where you could set a stage and have a play, maybe have a playwriter, scripts and rent costumes etc. |
This is what I'm most looking forward to. It would be a great player-run event if some people got together and put on a play. It would also be a great way to raise money.
Arden |
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HR-Hunter
Joined: 06 Sep 2002 Posts: 564 Location: [Deep Wilderness Shrine, Haelrahv]
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Quote: |
Oh, and one more thing. Can there possibly be race-specific dance styles? I'd really like to see an Alteri ceremonial dance. |
You and me, both. I wholly concur.
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I can see a Jadan style that'd be all slow and graceful like a dancing version of Tai-Chi (sp?). _________________ ~Hunter~ |
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HR-Trevor Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002 Posts: 6683 Location: Louisville, KY
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Is there no way to code it so that when kneel shows up, you automatically kneel? Or the same with stand, lie down etc. Could you code it so that it applies only when you're performing? If you're gonna lay on something then I understand why it cannot be done. |
It's possible but it may fire off accidentally at times when one doesn't intend it, so the best solution is probably like:
kneel act blah blah.
Which would make you kneel, then act out blah blah. Note however, that to avoid abuse, standard RT checks, penalties of any sort etc would have to apply like standard kneel, stand, etc. _________________ "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy |
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Dragoonseal
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 Posts: 326 Location: Shaded alcove
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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kneel act stands up.
By the way, I do like the idea though, a lot of helpful stuff you can do with it. _________________ Dragoonseal |
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HR-Mickey Cloverfield Monster
Joined: 24 Nov 2002 Posts: 1844 Location: I've Got No 'billy
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 11:40 am Post subject: |
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desiree wrote: |
Music, I was talking about sequentially-timed messages and having a performance or practice area where we could pick out music or have the band play for us. It looks silly when you are supposed to be dancing and there is not even a drum or bard in the whole area |
Ah, gotcha. I don't see why not. I'm all for background music and stuff like that, and the idea of independent AI music-making. I thought you meant a process of actually breaking things down into measures, beats, and rhythms - a marvelous idea, but, unfortunately, far beyond the scope that a text-based game could encompass.
desiree wrote: |
I think singing is pretty straight forward, isn't it? |
Pretty much. You slowly get better at it as you practice.
desiree wrote: |
Other performance ideas:
Mimes on street corners
Poetry... be able to write your own book
Put on a play... have areas where you could set a stage and have a play, maybe have a playwriter, scripts and rent costumes etc. |
These are all great ideas. While mimes sort of creep me out, I'm a big appreciator of street performance of all varieties. I also like the concept of written works; not only just poetry, but songwriting, literature, and possibly even musical composition.
Plays (and other large-scale cooperational works) merit specific mention. I'd expect Virtuoso to boast at least one acclaimed production/concert hall, specifically intended for performances. A performing troupe of lycanthr-...er, actors... could script, requisition props and costumes, and charge admission/ticket-costs to entertain everybody else. Plus schmooze-y cast parties afterwards. And that doesn't even take into consideration player-run events like concerts and the like.
Last edited by HR-Mickey on Wed May 28, 2003 2:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HR-Mickey Cloverfield Monster
Joined: 24 Nov 2002 Posts: 1844 Location: I've Got No 'billy
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Dragoonseal wrote: |
kneel act stands up.
By the way, I do like the idea though, a lot of helpful stuff you can do with it. |
The saddest facet of online games is that some unscrupulous (read: cheesy and petty) players enjoy doing stuff like this, which degrades the concept of gaming to the point that designers have to add in ungainly, inconvenient things like parenthesized actions. I don't endorse extreme-measure failsafes (primarily because I like feeling that I can intrinsically trust my players), but it's disappointing that not every person feels any peer compunction to maintain acceptable/respectable standards of gaming interaction. </pulpit> |
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desiree
Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 59
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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OH.. I finally see what you're getting at. It did not even occur to me. Hit me over the head to make me see.. LOL
Lightbulb goes on!
Is there way that you could incorperate it into a special performer only verb? Like perform then when you kneel, you actually kneel but not unless you're performing?
I hope that made sense. _________________ ~ The longer the night lasts, the more our dreams will be. ~ |
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truth
Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 12
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:21 am Post subject: Shifting the Focus |
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One of the things that always seems to be the case in RPGs is that while you can play an ubersmart character without necessarily being that smart, or a strong fighter without being either strong or a fighter, if you want to play a performing sort of profession, you have to be that type of person. It puts a lot of strain on me to do a Bard in D&D or DR, because if you want to really develop your character's strengths you have to carry all that weight with your own abilities (rather than mechanics doing it for you).
Although I don't think it's entirely possible to get away from that, I think the song scrolls that showed up in DR were a good step. I think it would be good to see pre-written song scrolls-like things, and dance instructions (maybe the traditional footstep instructions, or some type of high-tech holographic imager demonstrating the movements so we can learn it), and, more generally, "performances" (meaning combination of dance and music/song), since it's usually so difficult to deal with music/song and act/movements simultaneously.
Also, in theater terms, we could have holographic masks that would change our appearances and voices.
There could be automated masks that would basically be like the scripted songscrolls, dancemanuals, and performancelog-type stuff that I described above, and these masks would read off the dialogue of a short play and act it out (the mask would change appearances/voices to represent different characters). |
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