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Learning Skills
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The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » "Live" Discussions » Learning Skills
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How do you prefer to "spend" skill points?
Search out trainers, no cost, train to any skill level.
17%
 17%  [ 3 ]
Search out trainers, has a cost, train to any skill level.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Search out trainers, no cost, train to limited skill level.
35%
 35%  [ 6 ]
Search out trainers, has a cost, train to limited skill level.
29%
 29%  [ 5 ]
Just let me use a command to do it anywhere.
17%
 17%  [ 3 ]
Something else I'll describe in a post.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 17

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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:46 am    Post subject: Learning Skills
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As mentioned before, in Live, you do things to earn skill experience. But, instead of swinging a sword and gaining bladed weapons skill automatically, you gain points in a general pool according to the type of skill. In this case, the "offense" pool. Now, you can then choose to spend those points on bladed weapons, marksmanship, unarmed, anything that falls under the "offense" skills umbrella.

So the question I'd like to ask is... how would you like to "spend" these points? Speak to a trainer NPC/go to a location? Just use a command regardless of where you are? If you use a NPC or facility, do you think they should charge for their services? Again if using a NPC, should the NPC only be able to help you to a certain extent before you need to search out a trainer with more experience?

Essentially, some players find these possible details enjoyable and part of immersing into the world. Others think they're a waste of time and a pain in the ass. So what do -you- think?

(By the way, I'm sure some would suggest allowing players to help other players do this, and that's likely. I'd like your opinions on the mainstream option here, though.)
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject:
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certain trainers should only teach to a certain amount, too.

ie: the local doctor can teach you medicine to 100, but you'll have to go to the medical college alllllll the way over there for 500+

i love the idea of PC trainers, too.
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Deblaeju



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject:
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i'd like to see pc's trainers as well, something was thinking is having it so that the pc trainer would have to take time out to teach, and the trainee and trainer agree to what level of training, of course considering the time involved, the trainer would want compensation. So basically the trainer might be able to do easy noncritical things still but, no major skills. same for the trainee. unlike that other place where ye just trained and could do just about anything and teach em.
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Tao



Joined: 19 Nov 2002
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject:
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I picked: Just let me use a command to do it anywhere. Because I didnt want to take the time to go searching for trainers. You could even have had: Just let me use a command to do it anywhere with a cost. I would have picked that one too.

Right now, since my chars are at 100+, I tend to forget to go train my skills even tho for some weird reason I still get that reminder that I'm ready to level. Heh. But when I do remember to check I grumble cause that just means I have to go find them to and train. I'd rather be doing something else like sitting on my dock fishing, hunting or shooting the breeze in my tree. I know, me lazy. Sad
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:59 am    Post subject:
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If it cost (let's use current game economy) 50 credits x the rank you have now (so if you have 250 skill, 50x250 = 12,500) to train with a trainer, and it cost double that to train with a command, would you still forego trainers?
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Tao



Joined: 19 Nov 2002
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:02 pm    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
If it cost (let's use current game economy) 50 credits x the rank you have now (so if you have 250 skill, 50x250 = 12,500) to train with a trainer, and it cost double that to train with a command, would you still forego trainers?


LOL. I thought you meant money wise cost. Heh.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject:
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As in what, real money? LOL.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
If it cost (let's use current game economy) 50 credits x the rank you have now (so if you have 250 skill, 50x250 = 12,500) to train with a trainer, and it cost double that to train with a command, would you still forego trainers?


or maybe there can be [tech-made?] personal training machines, or holographic sims, or something that makes a trainer more mobile and personal. while not costing money per train, there will be money spend to get the parts that more or less make it cost extra than normal training, but still give convenience.
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Denavae
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject:
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I think searching out for trainers, or finding PC trainers, is part of the fun associated with leveling. I personally like going to advance because I don't know what level I may get a special little knick-knack (like access to a special comm channel) or something. So it's always a surprise for me. However, I do kinda think it would be beneficial to have a small group of trainers in a set place (school, academy, et cetera) who trains up to a small amount (fifty points or so), that way people new to Haelrahv can get a hang of the whole training thing before actually having to also search down trainers.

I also like the idea of PC trainers and to encourage player to player training I think it would be neat to allows both parties to learn in a teaching session. For example, Vae goes to Wei and asks to be taught in occult lore. Wei agrees and they sit down and she starts teaching. Throughout the way, I increase my knowledge tenfold, where she might only get enough to raise that point by two or three points. In any teaching scenario, the teacher will -always- learn something new from her students; there will always be that one student who brings up something new the teacher didn't know, or provide details the teacher doesn't know, or even just shed a different perspective on a subject.

In the course of my ramblings, I think I forgot to mention which one I chose. Search out trainers, at a cost, with limited skill.
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Tao



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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
As in what, real money? LOL.

No, I meant IG cash of course. Like for example in DR when training stats, there is also a monetary fee along with the TDPS.
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Brokyn
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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:46 am    Post subject:
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As long as most skills have a trainer in most of the major cities, I don't see a problem with option one. I wouldn't be adverse to a nominal fee, though.

I like Yaru's idea of having most of those trainers capable of training you to a capped level, but then you'd have to go find the specialized trainers to go above that cap. This would help emphasize that certain cities are more geared toward certain professions (ie., I would expect tech-related skills to be trainable to 200 through a trainer in Rinth, but not so much out in Esia).

--William
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Denavae
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:48 am    Post subject:
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This may not be the proper thread for this, but I've a concern about skill trainings. There's a possibility I missed it in all the reading, so bear with me if this has already been answered.

I'm looking at the Nskills and our current set up. Our current set up, we gain bonuses to skills for our class (humans get an initial +6 to their four core skills). With the new system, will there even -be- core skills? Or class skills that are learned faster then say a tertiary skill (by that I mean something not a class skill)?

Also, looking at the nskills is very alarming. Compared to my current skills, I would absolutely suck at any hunting (given, I don't hunt much as it is), but I would also horribly suck at my psionics ... and being a psionic, that's as alarming as the pearly gates falling from heaven. Now, maybe I'm just missing the point for nskills, but I was under the impression that is pretty much (but not exactly) what the new system will be like. I hunt some, and I always keep at least one weapon skill trained just for defensive purposes at the very least. Yet, my nskill shows my marksmanship at 2 as well as psionic ability. When I do hunt, I cast powers; namely paralyze, attune eyesight, unlock and cleanse. Normally, it's paralyze critter, two shots, dead. When junk piles up, cleanse. Then attune eyesight (and occasionally alluring aura) to fill my mind and keep my perception up for aiming. So, it's rather startling that one of my main skills being a psionic is so very low, while my only means of defense is also unbelievably low. Will there be a faster learn rate for "class" skills that isn't in effect for the nskills? Or will I just be screwed in my psionics because I don't go out and actively hunt with the powers?
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject:
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I've pretty much abandoned the whole nskills thing, unfortunately. This is because it is not the intended format for Live, and if it were, the code would not be completely reusable. Most importantly, nskills requires modification of any code that uses skills. As you've noticed, this also means maintaining and modifying that code for the case of skills that train slowly. I'd like to implement NSKILLS in the current game, but it's way too much work and the end result would be delaying Live even more. I know this disappoints some (but elates at least a few I'm sure.)

My overall efforts are very slanted toward getting "Live" up and running rather than improving the current game. Most of the staff work on the current game almost exclusively for now and add content and systems. With the exception of what our highest level coders take on, few major systems will change dramatically in the current game, as most of those tend to fall on my shoulders and I'm focused on Live.

Now, as for Live, the skill system there is entirely different. For one, it will of course be maintained and any slow gaining systems that are not intended to work such a way will be modified as needed to speed them up. Secondly, you have a lot of ways you can raise any given skill because of the skill "genre" system. Instead of only using psi powers to gain psionics experience, there are many other skills that fall in the same genre, so your methods of training expand.
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Denavae
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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject:
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That is definantly relieving to hear (err .. read, but who's going for technicalities?). But what about core skills, class skills and the racial bonuses to such? Will there be something like that in Live, or was that just something for the testing phases?
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject:
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Certain classes will find it easier to improve certain skills, but there won't be innate bonuses to skills. However, there will be special abilities that are class-specific that enhance skills (or stats.)
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