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yay first gripe!
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: yay first gripe!
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Wink

Quote:
Equipment Wear:
Like many items in Live, weapons, armor, shields will take damage and need repair. These items can even be destroyed permanently in some cases.


could you consider changing it from them being destroyed permanently to them being completely useless until they're repared in a way that is difficult/hard enough to do/etc to make it so reparing before that point is still very very well reccomended?

i don't know how everyone else normally handles "well you can lose this forever," but when i'm in that kind of situation i just never really bother using cool thing X at all and just hording it. i'd also never want anything personalized if it could be gone forever.

ps: i only focused on this in the reply because i'm really happy with the idea of everything else, especially if i'd be able to have Yaru be a gunsmith.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:06 pm    Post subject:
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actually! i'll even go and say it:

Quote:
Equipment Creation/Repair:
All combat equipment will be created by skilled artisans and/or technicians, as applicable. These persons can also repair equipment. Whether certain professions will be able to do crude field repairs is yet to be decided.


this = cool. so so so cool. i'd love to be able to make more than armor (especially since armor creation is pretty awesome to me).

Quote:
Large-scale Combat:
Certain skills exist for use in mission combat situations such as the Trooper skill, "Artillery".


stop making troopers cool.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: yay first gripe!
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soundless wrote:
Wink

Quote:
Equipment Wear:
Like many items in Live, weapons, armor, shields will take damage and need repair. These items can even be destroyed permanently in some cases.


could you consider changing it from them being destroyed permanently to them being completely useless until they're repared in a way that is difficult/hard enough to do/etc to make it so reparing before that point is still very very well reccomended?

i don't know how everyone else normally handles "well you can lose this forever," but when i'm in that kind of situation i just never really bother using cool thing X at all and just hording it. i'd also never want anything personalized if it could be gone forever.

ps: i only focused on this in the reply because i'm really happy with the idea of everything else, especially if i'd be able to have Yaru be a gunsmith.


It's still sort of up for grabs. But as part of what I'm also going to touch on later, almost everything is going to be player-made. This means almost everything can be player re-made. The kinds of things I see as definite exceptions to the "break forever rule" would be like a wedding ring, for instance.

However, I'm not really invested in the idea of destroying the actual object, the important thing is for whatever purpose that object serves to no longer serve it at some point of wear. For instance, weapons or armor that can no longer be used, devices that no longer function, clothing that is no longer suitable to be worn, etc. The item could potentially remain as a 'prop' of sorts.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


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Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: yay first gripe!
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HR-Trevor wrote:
It's still sort of up for grabs. But as part of what I'm also going to touch on later, almost everything is going to be player-made. This means almost everything can be player re-made.


definitely like this a lot!
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Brokyn
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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:50 pm    Post subject:
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So many new skills, wow.

First, where are current exotic weapons going to fit in? You know, like flamethrowers and whips and whatnot. Or are these going to be taken out?

Second, for professions that have an improved skill, are both going to be available to train or is the superior one going to replace the inferior one? Like with the Performers' Reflexes skill being better than Evasion; will both be trainable or just Reflexes?

Third, with all these new skills, and all of these being just combat-related skills, can the SKILLS command be made to do something like...

Code:
>SKILLS

Below is a list of the areas in which you have spent training points:

Arcane:       63         Commerce:     36
Combat:       50         Craft:        40
Clandestine:  27         Performance:  72

Special:      33

To see an itemized list of the skills you have trained, type SKILLS <area>.  For example, SKILLS ARCANE will show if you have trained Spell Casting, Spell Research, Occult Lore, etc.

For a list of all skills, regardless of if you have trained them or not, type SKILLS ALL.

You currently have 3 unused Skill Training Points.


I think they're all self-explanatory. The Special area would include all of the profession-specific skills that the character can train, regardless of whatever other area they would fall under. These special skills would also be listed in their respective area.

Also, the Special area would include any skills unlocked by the character. For instance, if the character decides to "sub-class" in Bureaucracy (teehee), any political skills would be put in this area.

I guess things like Ecology and Mining would go under Commerce. Because, let's face it, those are cash cows.

This change would be great instead of having to live through a multi-screen list containing all of these crazy new skills. Confused

--William
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Tao



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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject:
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Brokyn wrote:
I guess things like Ecology and Mining would go under Commerce. Because, let's face it, those are cash cows.


So "commerce" are any skills that would help you make money? For me, to categorize them into "commerce" just doesnt sound right. It might be the tracker in me, but it sorta sounds bureaucratic. They may be cash cows now, but when LIVE comes, it might ba a whole different story. Maybe "trade" would sound better. I would love to see hunting be more of a cash cow.

I'm really excited about the companions idea. I just hope that there isnt a cap on level of the companion where the critter you are hunting is way out of your companion's league and ends up being destroyed everytime.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
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Location: Northern Georgia

 Post Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:41 am    Post subject:
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All of those were just off-the-cuff suggestions. The ecology and mining note was more of a post-script than anything... I didn't want someone to come up and say "O NOES WUT ABOOT THAT THAR ECOLOGY". I figured that forageables and mineables would still mostly be sold/bought/traded for use in other systems, so it made rough sense to me to lump the two skills under a skill group that's meant for economics.

--William
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:16 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
First, where are current exotic weapons going to fit in? You know, like flamethrowers and whips and whatnot. Or are these going to be taken out?


They'll be placed in a generally similar area of some sort. Flamethrowers will likely end up in firearms, whips in exotic blunt or something, etc.

Quote:
Second, for professions that have an improved skill, are both going to be available to train or is the superior one going to replace the inferior one? Like with the Performers' Reflexes skill being better than Evasion; will both be trainable or just Reflexes?


Performers can (and should) train both Evasion and Reflexes for optimal benefit. Reflexes will be an augmentation to Evasion.

Quote:
Third, with all these new skills, and all of these being just combat-related skills, can the SKILLS command be made to do something like...


As I understand it, you're asking if skills can be classified under a general type based on the skill's characteristics, and then if commands such as SKILLS and what not can display statistics based on this concept? That's the plan already, so yes, it can be done. Wink For the record, the list of skill pools: Arcane, Covert, Defense, Knowledge, Lore, Offense, Physical, Science, Technology, Trade. Skills are further noted as either Physical or Mental in focus. Each profession has eight skills to call its own (with a couple cases of sharing/overlap, like 2 professions get Reflexes and 2 get Superior Vitality.)

The way the training mechanism is going to work is that instead of learning, say, foraging by foraging, this skill is in the Science pool, so you'd earn points in that pool. Those points can be used to increase your skill in any Science skill (which includes not only Foraging, but also Mining, Poison Application, Remedies, Explosives (for Agents), Metallurgy (for Artisans) and so on. Foraging is also noted as a Physical focus skill so you would earn points you can use to improve one of the physical stats (Agility, Coordination, Strength, Vitality).

Quote:
So "commerce" are any skills that would help you make money? For me, to categorize them into "commerce" just doesnt sound right. It might be the tracker in me, but it sorta sounds bureaucratic. They may be cash cows now, but when LIVE comes, it might ba a whole different story. Maybe "trade" would sound better. I would love to see hunting be more of a cash cow.


We use the term "trade", indeed, in the "this is what I do for a job/living or as a big part of my job/living" sort of sense. Some example "Trade" skills include: Appraisal, Fishing, Skinning, Tailoring (Artisan), Gadgetry (Technician) and so on.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:46 pm    Post subject:
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Oh snap. Thanks, Trevor.

I'll try to get a wiki article or two started to cover everything so far.

--William

[edit:]
wiki articles:

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Last edited by Brokyn on Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject:
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doublepost LOL

Quote:
Health:
The "Conditioning" skill (not to be confused with "Body Conditioning") is open to all professions and affects how many health and stamina points a character has. Mercenaries receive a "Vitality" skill which further improves health, and Guardians and Troopers have a "Superior Vitality" skill that is even more effective.


So, is the Vitality stat going away in place of a skill that does it instead? Or are you letting us have the option to powertrain our health/stamina points if we were so inclined?

Quote:
For the record, the list of skill pools: Arcane, Covert, Defense, Knowledge, Lore, Offense, Physical, Science, Technology, Trade.


What's the difference between Knowledge and Lore? I could take a guess, but that doesn't work out in my favour apparently.

--William
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:16 pm    Post subject:
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Brokyn wrote:
So, is the Vitality stat going away in place of a skill that does it instead? Or are you letting us have the option to powertrain our health/stamina points if we were so inclined?


Code:
Eoceoe punches Acosae in the face.
Eoceoe punches Acosae in the face.
Eoceoe punches Acosae in the face.
Eoceoe punches Acosae in the face.
Acosae looks stunned!
Eoceoe punches Acosae in the face.
Eoceoe punches Acosae in the face.
Eoceoe punches Acosae in the face.

Acosae sighs.

Acosae asks, "So this will raise my health?"

Eoceoe says, "Uh, yeah."

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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


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Location: Northern Georgia

 Post Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject:
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My thoughts exactly!

--William
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject:
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Vitality will still be used in a number of ways, including poison resistance, health and stamina regeneration levels, and much more.

Knowledge and lore aren't much different, but we couldn't have 35 skills in one pool. I'm going to post the full skill list shortly, so you'll see the sort of feel each has.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:21 pm    Post subject:
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Excellent. Very Happy I'll hold off working on this "Skills in Live" wiki article until you post that, then. I was going to do it piecemeal as new skills were announced and described, but your one-fell-swoop list-posting would be better.

Hopefully you'll put in descriptions, too.

--William
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:51 pm    Post subject:
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Ok, as I was writing this up, I noticed a couple of things.

1. All the individual instrument skills are gone. I'm guessing they were all wrapped up into one skill, perhaps Orchestration or Performance under the Performer-Specific skills?

2. That kind of brings me to the next point. Mages and Psionics are the only ones with access to skills related to spells and psionic abilities (and I can only assume Performers will have sole access to spellsongs as well). Is that the intent -- to make them profession-specific abilities... instead of 75% open to every profession? I hope that sentence makes sense.

--William
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