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Healing
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Kit
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:21 am    Post subject:
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I've also suggested lure for trackers, but in something marketable like potions, but Trevor said that right now, it's performer specific. When asking for technicial equivalents of magical things, the same thing comes up....they don't want to duplicate abilities across the board because they feel it takes away from the specialness of the profession.
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HR-Mickey
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Joined: 24 Nov 2002
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:46 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
Paths are teh first thing that come to my mind. At first only mages could do that sorta thing, then trackers got circles, psi have instant recall, performers have spellsong (i believe) and even artisans can now go through a portal that lands them in echak.


Most of your information is incorrect. To wit, Mages, Psionics and Performers all possessed the potential to "teleport" (the spells and powers are still detailed on the website) since pre-Beta planning. Trackers (circa March 4th 2004, referenced by this post by Slowalker) and Artisans (the latter being easier transport to a low-traffic area) getting these abilities in Beta were an afterthought.

Re: Lure, I should point out a few things that non-Performers don't seem to be aware of. First, it's a magical charm-like ability. It's resisted mentally. It has hardcoded limitations on A: applicable power, B: what it can be used on (no guards, civilians, mechanical, undead or mindless creatures), and, C: most importantly, is deliberately difficult to do successfully. In keeping with these guidelines, even if a Tracker "lure" were released based on the profession, what conceivable justification would there be for it to work beyond anything above animal intelligence?

Finally consider the implications of a natural healing dermagel-like "remedy" made by Trackers. That's not just ability-intertwining, it's undermining the purpose of an entire profession whose niche is healing. It would be tantamount to giving Medics the potential to out-skin, out-track, and out-forage Trackers; how many Tracker characters would see the balance in that? It's been said before, the point of profession-exclusive abilities and niches isn't something we added arbitrarily to say "You can't do this, and you can't do that, or that.", because, let's face it, there's not a conceivable system in the game that any character shouldn't be able to do with enough skill points invested. The thing is, I wouldn't personally enjoy a game where Mercenaries are brokering commodities, Performers are arresting people, and Bureaucrats fix comms. The foundation of a profession-based game is, quite obviously, professions with quirks and abilities that make each viable and worth playing.
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Galeth Lothain
Er, der wahr ist


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:26 am    Post subject:
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Well, also have to take into consideration that hardly any medics wake up unless someone dies. So meh, I still think trackers should get it, but it's only an idea :shrugs:



Edit: You seem to really be against it, though I don't see it cause Mercs got knock offs of meditations :X (or so nearly every Guardian feels) so what's the difference between dermagel made naturally, and stuff people use all the time in stores? People use it more than they ask for medics, so I really don't see the trouble in using dermagel, cause if you think, the dermagel in stores is ALSO downgrading that profession. Who's going to call a medic for a scuffed left foot? Meh. It'd give something neat for trackers to do, and really there is no harm to it.
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"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
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HR-Mickey
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:53 am    Post subject:
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Galeth Lothain wrote:
Well, also have to take into consideration that hardly any medics wake up unless someone dies. So meh, I still think trackers should get it, but it's only an idea


I think I missed something; what do cardiostimulators have to do with dermagel?

Quote:
though I don't see it cause Mercs got knock offs of meditations :X (or so nearly every Guardian feels)


If Mercenaries suddenly became the leading unarmed combat profession, I'd be inclined to agree. For the sake of clarification, though, which Mercenary techniques cross over with Guardian meditations?

Quote:
so I really don't see the trouble in using dermagel


It seems we agree.
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Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.


Last edited by HR-Mickey on Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Galeth Lothain
Er, der wahr ist


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 126
Location: That one place with that one town with that one house on that one street

 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject:
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They are, though no Guardian meditation raises skill, merc's tech's do. As well as coord agi strength and resistances..etc.. So yes, they are very very similar to them. Hence knock offs. But was just stating no medic is awake, unless someone dies. Which means it wouldn't hurt the profession any. And I still stand on the regular dermagel statement. Don't see the problem in having both. Very Happy And the dermagel thing, as I said, was an idea is all, and would give something unique to trackers
_________________
"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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HR-Mickey
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:59 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
They are, though no Guardian meditation raises skill, merc's tech's do. As well as coord agi strength and resistances..etc.. So yes, they are very very similar to them. Hence knock offs.


By that logic, 80% of spellsongs, the trait/flaw system, a full path of Psionic powers and the entire alchemy system are Guardian knockoffs.
_________________
Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.
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Galeth Lothain
Er, der wahr ist


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 126
Location: That one place with that one town with that one house on that one street

 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:01 am    Post subject:
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But None of those CONTINUALLY run mana, and could stay going forever, provided mana never ends. Tech's and Meditations are strangely similar. So meh, alot of us feel they were knock offs. But that's off topic Razz. Still stand on the views of giving naturally made dermagel to trackers. Very Happy
_________________
"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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Nelle
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:02 am    Post subject:
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Galeth Lothain wrote:
They are, though no Guardian meditation raises skill, merc's tech's do. As well as coord agi strength and resistances..etc.. So yes, they are very very similar to them. Hence knock offs. But was just stating no medic is awake, unless someone dies. Which means it wouldn't hurt the profession any. And I still stand on the regular dermagel statement. Don't see the problem in having both. Very Happy And the dermagel thing, as I said, was an idea is all, and would give something unique to trackers


Just a thought for long term.. maybe look into why the medics aren't awake unless someone dies instead of working around them. Dermagel is available in stores anyway so I can't see a difference on who can make it.
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Galeth Lothain
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:06 am    Post subject:
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because they're bored and they really get nothing besides healing and raising people, which is why I wanna go with Yaru's statement, about how Trackers could forage the herbs up, and medics extract the goopy stuff. Good idea, yaru.

Edit: hehe, cause I just happened to glance back and read yaru's statement, but this all was an idea. Lately just random ideas popping into teh head :/
_________________
"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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Nelle
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:10 am    Post subject:
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Galeth Lothain wrote:
because they're bored and they really get nothing besides healing and raising people, which is why I wanna go with Yaru's statement, about how Trackers could forage the herbs up, and medics extract the goopy stuff. Good idea, yaru.


It could also have something to do with some of the things I've seen about how folks won't go to a medic for just scuffs. Of course they get bored. Medics are a helping profession more than anything else. If no one wants their help unless they have to, such as dying.. not much point to waiting around to see if anyone needs healing maybe?

But those are just assumptions on my part since I'm not around often enough to really know any more.
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Galeth Lothain
Er, der wahr ist


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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:11 am    Post subject:
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But most medics don't get alot in their mind pool from a scuff, which really, medics should get more than healing and raising, but don't think anyone has any ideas, or those that do, aren't gonna be put in until 'live'.
_________________
"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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Nelle
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject:
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Galeth Lothain wrote:
But most medics don't get alot in their mind pool from a scuff, which really, medics should get more than healing and raising, but don't think anyone has any ideas, or those that do, aren't gonna be put in until 'live'.


I suppose you're right. I never healed for exp myself so it wasn't a factor for me. I do have to say that even if they do let the trackers make the dermagel if medics forage the goopy stuff.. yuck. More foraging? Yuck yuck yuck.
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Galeth Lothain
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:16 am    Post subject:
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Nelle wrote:


More foraging? Yuck yuck yuck.


Trackers do the foraging, medics do the extracting, think that's what yaru said. Could use some kind of medical devices of some sort for it...some kinda...extractor, machine thingy Idea
_________________
"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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HR-Mickey
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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:24 am    Post subject:
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Techniques do consume focus, fyi. Getting back to the topic of Tracker-made dermagel...

Quote:
You seem to really be against it


It's got nothing to do with for or against. The application of systems as a GM doesn't base itself on our temperament or opinion on the day in question, but a much simpler rule of thumb:

"neat thing" is not always conducive to balanced gaming environment. I can tell you that I veto my own game ideas at least twenty times more often than I implement them, just for balance purposes.

Finally, Nelle raises a superb point. If Medics are already feeling disenfranchised (you don't need Dale Carnegie to tell you that "nobody needs a medic until they die" is dangerous diplomacy), pushing them one step further toward obselevence isn't going to improve that attitude (I direct your attention to the last Medic revive strike).
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Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Galeth Lothain
Er, der wahr ist


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 126
Location: That one place with that one town with that one house on that one street

 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:28 am    Post subject:
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Valid point. So maybe someone can give something for them to do? Other than wait for people to die or nearly be dead? Maybe grant them more medical toys or something? I dunno. But eh. I can't help but like the dermagel idea Razz. Doesn't have to be implemented, jsut glad someone liked it other than me. (and I knew tech's take focus/mana, cause meds do too, but again off subject)
_________________
"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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