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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY
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 Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: Combat Update Outline. |
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Okay folks, here's what I have come up with as a general outline for combat updates. Frankly, in a way I look forward to it, in some ways I dread it because the more work I do on combat, the longer until I can finish say, NSKILLS, or homes, or even more, get to Live dev. Still, combat really needs some serious help. Balance is completely out of whack. The following does not address every issue, but it covers some of the most vital points. As always, any of this is subject to change, especially numbers.
| Code: |
Kill Time (Under hunt) A few seconds
Kill Time (Even hunt) 60-80 seconds
Box Chance (Even hunt) 5-10% per kill
Box Weight Heavy
Box Difficulty (Even hunt) 2.7-3.5x level skill
Max Box Difficulty 250/575
Items Per Box 3-8 (Level Based)
Opponent Defense Skills 2.0x-3.0x level
Opponent Offense Skills 3.0x level |
NPC Combatant Professions:
--------------------------------------------------------
All NPC combatants level five and up will be given a
profession designation of one of the following: Agent,
Guardian, Mage, Mercenary, Performer, Psionic, Tracker,
or Trooper. All appropriate skills and stats will be
bonused. In some cases, NPC's may use spells or other
abilities particular to a profession as well.
Damage Types:
--------------------------------------------------------
NPC's will inflict damage with a greater range of damage
types. Specifically, elemental damage use will increase.
Spell / Power Use:
--------------------------------------------------------
More NPC's will use various spells and powers, both
those available to players and unique abilities.
Hit/Miss Calculations:
--------------------------------------------------------
The primary method of balancing combat will be with
extra attention given to calculations that determine hit
or miss. Additionally, a level factor for players and
NPC's will be added to make it more difficult (but not
impossible) to hunt over one's head.
Fatigue:
--------------------------------------------------------
Fatigue will be greatly altered so that far less fatigue
is used per normal attack so that fatigue is far less of
an issue when these attacks are used. Special attacks
that provide unique bonuses will drain far more fatigue
and will be intended for use sparingly. The role of
weapon roundtime will be downplayed.
Balance:
--------------------------------------------------------
Balance routines will be completely re-written. Balance
change events will consist purely of simple adjustments
to balance rather than dramatic balance changes, and the
chance of a balance change will be more open to
augmentation rather than the amount of balance change as
currently exists.
Combat Modifiers:
--------------------------------------------------------
The modifications to hit/miss, damage, knockdown and
stun rate due to weapon used, stance, profession, etc
will all be flattened down considerably. These factors
will hold significant but reduced influnce.
Profession Offense/Defense Modifiers:
--------------------------------------------------------
Modifiers will be linked profession which will increase
the chance of "fumbled" attacks or defenses. A fumbled
attack or defense is an automatic failure. However,
most attacks and defenses will not fumble and in this
situation all professions are equal, skill/stat/etc
bonuses aside. For Mages and Psionics, attack ratings
are considered to be for their magic/mental attacks, not
by use of weapons. Note that defensive ratings do not
include the value of armor or other damage mitigation.
The following do not portay a profession's ability to
attack or defend as a whole, only their modifier to the
"fumble" factor. Rankings are in grade A, B, C, D, F
format, where A+ is best, F- is poorest.
| Code: |
Profession Defense Offense
--------------------------------------------------------
Agent B- B+
Artisan F+ F+
Bureaucrat F+ F+
Guardian A B
Mage F+ A+
Medic D D-
Mercenary B A
Performer C C
Psionic D- A-
Technician D- D+
Tracker B B
Trooper A- B+ |
Combat Treasure:
--------------------------------------------------------
The values of treasure items will be examined and a
thorough study will be completed to determine how an
average combat-oriented profession player hunt at their
level fares financially compared to non-combat earning
methods, at various levels. Initial theory is that the
value of treasure items needs to be increased.
The "level" of treasure will be augmented by the level
of the creature and the hunter. The level will be
raised slightly for players hunting on-level, even lower
level hunters. The level of the box will be greatly
reduced for those hunting well under their level. Those
hunting well under their level will have no chance to
receive a rare or ultra-rare item.
The overall goal is to make boxes uncommon, heavy,
difficult to pick/disarm while ensuring they bear very
valuable treasure, comparatively.
Skins:
--------------------------------------------------------
Skins retrieved from creatures well below one's level
will be marked so that they have a far lesser value to
compensate for the ability to gain low level creature
skins rapidly. These skins may be used for tailoring
without a penalty to capacity or appearance, however,
tailored goods made with them will be of lesser value.
Players hunting well below their level will have an
extremely low chance of gaining an exceptional skin.
These changes are not intended in any way to reflect
realism.
Health, Stamina and Focus Points:
--------------------------------------------------------
Health, stamina, and focus point maximums and regen
rates will be re-visited. Overall, stats like vitality
will play a significant but lesser role. However,
players who choose to completely ignore these stats will
feel the crunch of doing so, certainly. Strength may
be added as a slight modifier for maximum health and
stamina. Currently creature HP/SP/FP values are not
calculated as player's stats are. This will be fixed.
Armor Effectiveness:
--------------------------------------------------------
The effectiveness of armor will be modified according to
profession. For the chart below, very light armor is
considered cloth and some extra light leather/hide types
of armor. Note that APPRAISE will be updated to
differentiate very light from light. Both will use the
Light Armor skill.
| Code: |
Profession Very Light Light Heavy
--------------------------------------------------------
Agent A A D
Artisan A C F
Bureaucrat A D F
Guardian - - -
Mage A D F
Medic A C F
Mercenary A A C
Performer A C F
Psionic A C F
Technician A C F
Tracker A A D
Trooper A A A |
Damage Disparity Adjustment:
--------------------------------------------------------
An overwhelming number of players have expressed their
desire to slay creatures well under their own level very
quickly, even at the cost of possible loot. Therefore,
artificial measures will be put in place to accomplish
this goal. When a player attacks something well under
their level, the chance to hit a vital body area will
be greatly increased, even if the player does not aim
their attack. The chance to hit an aimed area (vital or
not) will be increased dramatically. Damage to easier
foes will be increased dramatically. Finally, for foes
deemed extremely easy, a "splatter" effect will be put
in place where associated areas to that hit take damage.
For instance, if the chest is struck, damage to the
abdomen and back may also occur. These combined changes
should insure that hunting things well under ones level
becomes instant carnage. Note that similar effects
will apply to spell casts / power uses.
Combat Attack Forms:
--------------------------------------------------------
The number of attack commands available will increase
for unarmed, blunt, piercing, and slashing attacks.
Some of these new attacks will be profession-specific as
this has been a popular request for some time.
Mage Adjustments:
--------------------------------------------------------
Mages are geared to do high damage but suffer generally
poor defense. Use of damage shields will help mitigate
damage taken. The overall goal will be to cement Mages
as the most offensive combat-related profession.
Psionic Adjustments:
--------------------------------------------------------
While lacking as much offensive punch as Mage, Psionics
are on similar footing with very good damage production
and fairly poor defense. Defensive powers available to
Psionics will assist.
Guardian Adjustments:
--------------------------------------------------------
Two main concerns are being evaluated for Guardians:
Their ability to use unarmed combat in comparison to
other professions, and their reliance on short-range
attacks. Both issues will be addressed in the near
future. The primary development goal for Guardians
is the sigil system, which features many combat
usable aspects.
Trooper Adjustments:
--------------------------------------------------------
The abilities, cyberware, and armor available ONLY to
Troopers will be reviewed for potential additions.
Mercenary Adjustments:
--------------------------------------------------------
The techniques, weaponry and attack styles/commands
available to Mercenaries will be reviewed for potential
additions.
Agent Adjustments:
--------------------------------------------------------
Stealth attacks and the effectiveness of poisons will
be examined for balance and possible modifications. A
large amount of non-combat dev is slated for Agents, so
how much development of additional combat features will
be applied to Agents is not yet known.
Tracker Adjustments:
--------------------------------------------------------
New archery and marksmanship attacks are planned, which
are not specifically Tracker oriented, but will enhance
these weapons which are their bread and butter.
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy |
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RiyWeiko
Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:36 am Post subject: |
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OK, this might sound stupid, but as a technician, I see hunting not becoming such a viable way to gain wealth, exp., or whatever. You state in your post that our offensive and defensive rate in the D category. Are more plans in the works as far as more non combatant ways of gaining exp., or do we take the hit and underhunt our skill level, or take the extra chance of the almost inevitible death by hunting at our level? I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this question, but as a technician, that is not able to perform alot of things now that are technician related, and hence forth resort to hunting, which is great, whereas other tasks like foraging and mining are both uber time consuming to gain the same exp as hunting. Sorry, I'll shush now, but I'd appreciate any insight into this.
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If it's broke, let me fix it. |
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Warner
Sneaky Locksmithiness
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 213
Location: The Armpit of the Universe
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Wow!
I'm anxious and apprehensive about these changes i must admit.
This looks like a great balance in gameplay, and some serious issues are
finally being addressed! (I know you and the rest of the staff have been under a shiateload of stuff on your plate so PLEASE do not take that the wrong way)
I'm anxious to see the splatter effect i must admit!
Looking forward also to agent stealth attacks and poison being looked into
(hopefully they'll have some usefulness again for Vy)
| Code: |
Primarily apprehensive about three things:
1:Box Chance (Even hunt) 5-10% per kill |
I love doing boxes very much, can't get enough of them (even when they're full of tech components and errand stuff!)
2
| Code: |
:Mage Adjustments:
--------------------------------------------------------
Mages are geared to do high damage but suffer generally
poor defense. Use of damage shields will help mitigate
damage taken. The overall goal will be to cement Mages
as the most offensive combat-related profession |
Magic should be powerful, but i feel IMO there are two other professions
which should have a more heavier bite in the offensive department;
Mercenary and Trooper. Mercenaries are the soldiers for hire, and are
gifted for all weapon skills.
Troopers, defenders of llianfair (rpwise) and the law type organization
when the justice system is released.
3:
| Code: |
Agent Adjustments:
--------------------------------------------------------
Stealth attacks and the effectiveness of poisons will
be examined for balance and possible modifications. A
large amount of non-combat dev is slated for Agents, so
how much development of additional combat features will
be applied to Agents is not yet known |
Stealth attacks IMO have been nuetered with the damage done by bladed
drastically reduced.Poisons....well i ceased to find them effective previously after getting the vial of pain mix and then seeing what other mixes did through higher agent's/skilled people's posts, am hoping this becomes a more useful tool in the hands of agents only (or at least learnable by agents) would also like to see the payout for them adjusted
as a viable market for agents of almost any promotion
I know this is all stuff in the works, so again i'd like to point out
that i am anxious to see the most of it implemented and am not trying jump the gun too much (just a tad nervous)
Thank you for giving a damn about what we as the players think Trevor
it's been one HELL of a nice change compared to where i crossed over from.
_________________
>You allow Stilldawn to undress you. |
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| RiyWeiko wrote: |
| OK, this might sound stupid, but as a technician, I see hunting not becoming such a viable way to gain wealth, exp., or whatever. You state in your post that our offensive and defensive rate in the D category. Are more plans in the works as far as more non combatant ways of gaining exp., or do we take the hit and underhunt our skill level, or take the extra chance of the almost inevitible death by hunting at our level? I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this question, but as a technician, that is not able to perform alot of things now that are technician related, and hence forth resort to hunting, which is great, whereas other tasks like foraging and mining are both uber time consuming to gain the same exp as hunting. Sorry, I'll shush now, but I'd appreciate any insight into this. |
Technicians have never been intended to be combat primary, and there are many existing and future methods for them to make money and experience outside of combat. However, that rating chart ONLY affects your fumble rate and fumbles are a relatively small part of combat. It is not reflective of your general to-hit or to-defend rolls, nor does it reflect the levels of damage you are capable of or sustain. Being a good combatant as a tech is completely viable, you just don't have any advantages in it.
| Warner wrote: |
| Magic should be powerful, but i feel IMO there are two other professions which should have a more heavier bite in the offensive department; Mercenary and Trooper. Mercenaries are the soldiers for hire, and are gifted for all weapon skills. Troopers, defenders of llianfair (rpwise) and the law type organization when the justice system is released. |
Both of those professions enjoy far better defense than Mages or Psionics, and that's part of the trade off. Still, I don't think the combat prowess of either will be doubted. Both are intended to be very formidable foes. To some, they may seem more formidable because they wield great power without being made of paper.
| Quote: |
| Stealth attacks IMO have been nuetered with the damage done by bladed drastically reduced.Poisons....well i ceased to find them effective previously after getting the vial of pain mix and then seeing what other mixes did through higher agent's/skilled people's posts, am hoping this becomes a more useful tool in the hands of agents only (or at least learnable by agents) would also like to see the payout for them adjusted as a viable market for agents of almost any promotion. |
Duly noted.
| Quote: |
| Thank you for giving a damn about what we as the players think Trevor it's been one HELL of a nice change compared to where i crossed over from. |
A game is a lonely place without players. In fact, a game is a lonely place with players, if they aren't happy. We strive to do far better than our competitors, whether we have 10 players or 1000 players.
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy |
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Warner
Sneaky Locksmithiness
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 213
Location: The Armpit of the Universe
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Both of those professions enjoy far better defense than Mages or Psionics, and that's part of the trade off. Still, I don't think the combat prowess of either will be doubted. Both are intended to be very formidable foes. To some, they may seem more formidable because they wield great power without being made of paper. |
Granted they trade off defense for offense to an extent,
yesterday i sparred Autae and with all that killing power Vyrath has,
i had to switch out cybereyes just to hit him, which tells me Mage Defense capabilities (as it is now) isnt that lacking for options.
This is all moot, because things are going to change
so i would say the only thing to do is hold onto my seat!
| Quote: |
| A game is a lonely place without players. In fact, a game is a lonely place with players, if they aren't happy. We strive to do far better than our competitors, whether we have 10 players or 1000 players. |
So true! You do far better then the "competition" so sleep easy at night! lol
_________________
>You allow Stilldawn to undress you. |
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 3648
Location: Northern Georgia
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Two questions:
1. With every huntable over 5th being turned into a profession, will the recently added creature-appraisal indicate which profession something is? Also, will animals (hatul, gilto, aerok, hoaweisho doe/buck, et al) be given these designations, despite it being doubtful that any of them could be a mercenary or guardian? Heh.
2. Since it's going to be made much much much easier for people to under-hunt, will there be anything in place to cap the treasure/skins available from their kills? Because, for instance...
GuardianA is level 80, but he's decided to help out TrackerB who is level 20. They both go out to the fen and GuardianA slaughters an entire village worth of mamajuk and borkin. TrackerB (who also has a lot of perception) just sits back and searches the kills, getting lots of l33t loot.
Or would that be considered mechanics abuse?
--William
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 1. With every huntable over 5th being turned into a profession, will the recently added creature-appraisal indicate which profession something is? |
Maybe, though it does seem a little OOC. Probably not.
| Quote: |
| Also, will animals (hatul, gilto, aerok, hoaweisho doe/buck, et al) be given these designations, despite it being doubtful that any of them could be a mercenary or guardian? Heh. |
Yes. But, it's not that a hatul is a guardian, for instance. It's that a hatul shares affinities that would be most closely linked to a guardian's. (I just made up the hatul/guardian combo, I have not assembled an actual profession designation list yet.)
| Quote: |
2. Since it's going to be made much much much easier for people to under-hunt, will there be anything in place to cap the treasure/skins available from their kills? Because, for instance...
GuardianA is level 80, but he's decided to help out TrackerB who is level 20. They both go out to the fen and GuardianA slaughters an entire village worth of mamajuk and borkin. TrackerB (who also has a lot of perception) just sits back and searches the kills, getting lots of l33t loot. |
The highest level of all those who attacked the creature will be used for sake of calculation of loot. Defending the younger player would not affect the loot they get, however.
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy |
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 3648
Location: Northern Georgia
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:04 am Post subject: |
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<thumbs up>
--William
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:13 am Post subject: |
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i'm cool with my F+'s and such...but if i'm going to be set up to suck for combat, i'd rather not have to try to hunt getok hounds in order to not have crappy priced tailored stuff.
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
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Warner
Sneaky Locksmithiness
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 213
Location: The Armpit of the Universe
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| i'm cool with my F+'s and such...but if i'm going to be set up to suck for combat, i'd rather not have to try to hunt getok hounds in order to not have crappy priced tailored stuff. |
You'll just have to pay us hunter types for skins...at an astronomically
overinflated high price of course, cause yannow, skinnin the bastards aint easy 
_________________
>You allow Stilldawn to undress you. |
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Warner
Sneaky Locksmithiness
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 213
Location: The Armpit of the Universe
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Just an idea for the rediculously higher level char killing the rediculously lower level target...
You begin to advance on a downy soft aiba.
You close to melee range with a downy soft aiba.
You stop advancing on a downy soft aiba because you're as close as you could possibly get!
Striking swiftly, a downy soft aiba attempts to bite you. At the last moment you dodge the attack, barely managing to avoid disaster.
[You are poorly balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
In a display of raw power, you attempt to perform an agonizing bodyslam on a downy soft aiba, grossly overdoing it, you hurtle the aiba to the ground.It splatters with a wet *thud* streaking the concrete with blood and viscera!
a downy soft aiba curls up into a ball of fluffy fur and dies.
[You are balanced, healthy, and slightly tired.]
Roundtime: 12 sec.
Editor's note: Jade suggested i suggest it, wow thats confusing.
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>You allow Stilldawn to undress you. |
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Warner wrote: |
| Quote: |
| i'm cool with my F+'s and such...but if i'm going to be set up to suck for combat, i'd rather not have to try to hunt getok hounds in order to not have crappy priced tailored stuff. |
You'll just have to pay us hunter types for skins...at an astronomically
overinflated high price of course, cause yannow, skinnin the bastards aint easy |
i did do that.
in fact, i was the only one ever paying over premium for things.
now you can stop being ignorant <3
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
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Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| soundless wrote: |
now you can stop being ignorant <3 |
Down boy. Retract those claws!
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage
AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/ |
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Warner
Sneaky Locksmithiness
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 213
Location: The Armpit of the Universe
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| i'm cool with my F+'s and such...but if i'm going to be set up to suck for combat, i'd rather not have to try to hunt getok hounds in order to not have crappy priced tailored stuff. |
Anyways, back ontopic, the grades for combat were referring to fumbles,
which didnt affect your ability to defend/attack in the skillwise sense.
Yes there's a higher chance you'll fuck up and shoot yourself in the foot
(or the face, wouldn't that be an odd twist of fate) Whatever quirks Trevor pens in for the "fumbolia"
but cheer up! The good news is you're an artisan so that means you
can tailor up a good handkerchief, so stop bitching! You're not in a combat based profession anyways, you knew that this whole time, did you not think that eventually changes were going to be made to reflect it more?
So with what credentials, do you level your finger at me and call me "ignorant"?
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Warner wrote: |
| So with what credentials, do you level your finger at me and call me "ignorant"? |
i'm cooler than you.
and how was that rant back on topic, anyway.
here's back "on topic".
i'm cool with the fumbles, but i'm saying that with the mindset that i'm too busy to really go hunting with yaru at the moment, anyway, and i'm hardly playing him. i can't say i'm a fan of not being apt at combat at all, while everyone else is rather effective at artisan skills, still.
locking me out of combat with an F+ in my ability to use weapons and defend myself is okay, but if that is the case noone should be capable of doing craft skills well at all.
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
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