FAQ Log in
Search Profile
Memberlist Usergroups
Log in to check your private messages
Register
Jump To: Haelrahv Main Site | My Haelrahv Account | Haelrahv Play Page
Combat Updates, Feedback
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 29, 30, 31  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic
The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Combat & Hunting » Combat Updates, Feedback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject: Combat Updates, Feedback
Reply with quote

Hello, folks. Smile

As you're aware, combat is undergoing a number of updates. I'd like to use this thread to get your feedback on these changes as they are implemented.

The first thing I'd like to say is that I understand change in general is difficult. I also understand change that can make your character less powerful is even more difficult. However, there are times when this is necessary. We don't enjoy putting our players through the trials of change and flux, it's something we do only when we have looked at a situation and decided, "Wow this is really off-kilter, we gotta do something to fix it."

In this case, the pace of combat is faster than it should be, and it's become an environment where killing things in a few seconds has become the standard. I don't believe we can have any kind of adequate game model or reward model for combat of this pace. The intent of these changes is to slow things down a bit so that players have challenges, and to ensure the rewards for those challenges are appropriate.

Below I'll update you on the current status of things and any issues I'm currently specifically interested in knowing more about. Feel free to reply to this thread, PM or email me.

-------

Current status: Melee attack roundtimes and damage output has been overhauled, though stamina rates and critical hit chances need to be examined further. Special attacks like backstab/ambush still need to be adjusted (sidenote: I'm in discussions with Marduk about modifying the use of combat attacks that require stalking to require it less).

Magic, psionics and ranged weapons have not been adjusted yet. These will be examined very soon.

-------

Current questions:

- How much longer does it take to kill something roughly your level or a bit below?
- How much longer does it take to kill something well below your level?
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:33 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

just my own general feeling on the changes.

1) i understand why they need to come about. not that you (GMs) want combat to be hard, you just want it to be not easy.

2) i picked missle weapons for a reason. yes, the reason is "to hit things at a range they can't hit me". if they can advance faster than when ranges [finally] came out because hunting at missle is unfair (which is, well, odd in a logic way), and now missle weapon RTs are changing, i'd prefer advance rates to be looked over again. i just want to know i'll be keeping the 'missle' aspect of my missle weapons. it seems they're being taken away for the sake of balance (or at least in too extreme a sense, from this player's perspective).

3) i know that battles should be harder, but one thing i think a lot of MUDs always forget is that NPCs have less to lose than PCs do. yes, all dying now means is that you can't do stuff for like 10 minutes if a psionic and a medic willing to help you are around, but, if critters act exactly (to a point) as players do, and we have to hunt on-level, it can be very annoying to have to hunt something that has a life span of 5 minutes and then respawns exactly the same after a minute.
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Gabriel



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 196

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:35 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

I like the changes. Combat damage all around was very high so it usually took me 6 seconds or less to kill anything I could hit, even with unarmed. Using only unarmed, I'm able to keep hunting effectively where I was before (Warehouse and droid thing attached to it). It takes me longer to kill things. Usually 16-18 seconds for two bodyslams, but that usually does the trick. In the fen, which is well below my level, it takes me about the same since I can't kill them in one hit unless I get the insta-death crit.

I can see people being irritated because they can't kill things at the speed of light any more. But I'll be playing the world's smallest violin just for them.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Nelle
Ooh Nuuurse..


Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 355
Location: Llanfair Morgue

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Code:
Current questions:

- How much longer does it take to kill something roughly your level or a bit below?
- How much longer does it take to kill something well below your level?


I'm not sure if my feedback will help, since I'm not a combat oriented profession but at level 61, Nelle is in royal guards [level 50?]. They weren't easy to kill before the tweak, it definitely wasn't a few seconds to kill before.. now they seem to take forever. Weapon RT to slash with two weapons went from 6 to 11 RT and for a single went from 4? to 7. Logically this means it takes almost twice as long to get in a killing blow, yes? It seems to take longer than that, are the guards regaining vitality while we wait on my weapon RT at a quick rate?

Considering that each new guard that enters the room advances on you if you're in combat, I've already run into a few situations when I had no chance of killing them all nor retreating to run, since they can gain ground on me and I retreat from them all at a different rate. It's not possible [for me at this point] to get to missile on 7 guards at once. This was before the tweak. I'm not sure I'm willing to test out how many I could stand against now. It really does take a while for me to kill a single one.
_________________
Stay true to yourself no matter the cost and you'll always know who you are.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Tylen
Alpha Antifemale


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 1192
Location: Not Colorado

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

It used to take about 2 seconds to pummel Kuchos to death.
Now it's around 15.
And of course they're way under my level.
_________________
** The phrase "break a leg" just wasn't ambitious enough for Mellie Knight. [8:31 pm]
** Mellie Knight was soundly defeated by Aesal Anari-Idia in the Zgedhi Gkenrzeg Rav! [8:31 pm]
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:32 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Code:
Current questions:

- How much longer does it take to kill something roughly your level or a bit below?
- How much longer does it take to kill something well below your level?




My main character is also not combat primary...even though I hunt with him more then I do 'tech things' because there aren't many tech things to do at the moment.

Question one:
Kit hunts in many places, mostly depending on how much focus I want to give to the game. If I'm RPing on AIM, checking email, playing neopets, whatever, he hunts in royal guards (ten below his level). He uses two heavy pulse guns without aiming (just 'shoot guard head'). Roundtime to hit them takes 2 seconds. Kit never misses and it takes about three rounds (six shots) to kill them. If not, then I have to wait the 3-5 seconds it takes for a pulse gun to reset. At the most, it takes me 4 rounds to kill....so about 15 seconds on the current script I have.

Now, because royal guards are good, and therefore Kit's alignment is suffering big time, I also have him hunt in the fen to mow down evil aligned creatures. They swarm there in certain rooms, which makes it an ideal hunting ground. The highest thing there is 30 levels beneath him. I hunt there because he can kill warriors in 1-3 rounds. Yes, this is almost like the royal guards. In fact, even the eobais workers take 1-3 round to kill. Again, this is not aiming, just shooting their heads.

So, for ease sake, we'll say anything 10 levels beneath Kit or lower takes between 1 and 4 rounds of fire to kill (between 2 and 15 seconds). These things all have to be at melee to hit...which it what I prefer. And, just to include this, hunting paladins (10 levels above him) takes almost 9 rounds of firing....and they very nearly get to melee before I shoot them. Dangerous!

Now, if I want to pay attention while I hunt, I hunt on level. So I head up to Mt Tzon into the new area...which again has good aligned things my level to hunt... (it's REALLY annoying having to hunt good creatures...it's very much against Kit's RP). Lumberjacks (56), trappers (59) and hunters (53) are what he hunts for right on level (only trappers are on the same level with him, the rest are below). He can kill lumberjacks in 3-4 rounds (15 seconds). Hunters and Trappers have ranged weapons that usually stun him at LEAST once. Hunters take longer than lumberjacks (he hides, aims the first shot, and then fires). It's about 20-25 seconds to kill a hunter. Trappers...trappers are horrible. He hits only about 60% of the time. Kit does the, aim the first shot, fire, fire twice more without aiming, run away until the pulse weapons can fire again, hide, sneak back...and so on. Trappers take almost a minute to kill....usually he runs from them though because they have a way of shooting him twice and having him die.


Well, that answered both questions.


Recap: It takes roughly the same amount of time for me to kill royal guards (50), borkin warriors (20) and eobais workers (6)...between 2-15 seconds. It takes almost a minute to kill trappers (59) which are on Kit's level.
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage

AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
zamde
Maestro


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 211

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:01 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Before the changes, it was within Zamde's power to buff her pummel roundtime down to a single second for each hand.

Fair? It depends on which side of the fists you're on, I guess.

Seriously, since pummel's release, how many people that train unarmed use -any other- hand attack mode once they get pummel -- not counting the Guardian sweep command-scroll technique -- for anything other than a break from pummeling redundancy? More succinctly, who in their right mind would use something else if you can pull off the most powerful hand-to-hand attack in the span of two seconds?

That was a tangent break based on some griping I've heard, but it's relavent.

At any rate, let me try terms that might carry more weight with the "stop touching me! Mooooom!" populace:
When PVP is back in and any given high-level uber-bonused badass is on a killing spree (I won't pretend 100% of the players are concerned with being imprisoned), would you rather the lurking brute get to fuck you up beyond belief in a single 2-second attack, or would you consider it within fairer parameters to be entitled an opportunity to get the hell away?
_________________
An eye for an eye; but my eye's worth more.

Dixie Pierce says, "I heard Zamde can't have kids cause she lactates poison."

[Telepathy] Yaru Dex projects: I thought Zamde doesn't have kids because her womb is full of aisobs.

You can't spell "slaughter" without 'laughter'.

Llanfair Anti-Cyber Brigade Member #0000
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:27 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Gabriel wrote:
I can see people being irritated because they can't kill things at the speed of light any more. But I'll be playing the world's smallest violin just for them.


more that creatures will be able to kill me because, if it takes forever to kill a creature, and those creatures plink away over and over and over, then i'll keep needing nap times between fights.

example:
for every X i kill, i lose 25% of my vit just during the process. so after just a few kills, i need to nap. i'm not sure how i feel about having to constantly run off and rest that often between fights.
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Nelle
Ooh Nuuurse..


Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 355
Location: Llanfair Morgue

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:30 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

I don't expect super speed, and it was never very fast for me. I just want to be able to kill one before I find myself with six more on me because it just takes that long.. any reasonable compromise works for me.

Yes, I suck at combat. I'm supposed to.
_________________
Stay true to yourself no matter the cost and you'll always know who you are.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

I have no real opinion on any of it. If it combat changes, then I'll adapt to it just like I did last time. Yeah, I think it's weird that it takes the same amount to kill a warrior as a guard and that trappers can mess me up easier then I can mess them up, but such is life. Obviously, GMs just don't say: "Wow! I think people need a shake up! Let's change combat!" Obviously they think about these changes long and hard. Rather then crying about things, people should post some stats. Post combat findings. That's what Trevor asked fer anyhows.
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage

AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:54 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

-------------------------
> OVERVIEW:
-------------------------
In an attempt to balance out damage across the full spectrum of combat - melee weapon, ranged weapon, unarmed, magic, and psionic - modifications are being made to these systems and this news article will serve to update you as we complete sections of this review and update.

Upcoming changes:
- Damage rates for magic and psionic abilities will be adjusted to be closely in line with weapon and unarmed attacks. Focus costs per spellcast may also be adjusted.
- Stamina usage will also be examined.
- Creatures will begin to fight at a rate more in line with players rather than an assumed 15 second roundtime per attack.
- Poison damage rates may also undergo some modifications as needed.


-------------------------
> NEWS:
-------------------------
04.13.05: Once the entirety of these changes are complete, treasure-related concerns will be addressed to ensure combat remains an excellent income source, but fairly so.

04.14.05: All players will be able to retrain stats after the combat updates are complete and seem to be stable. Only stats will be retrainable, not skills or traits.


-------------------------
> UPDATE NOTES:
-------------------------
04.13.05 updates:
- Roundtimes for MELEE armed and unarmed combat attacks have been adjusted. The modification to roundtime due to strength and coordination has been reduced. Base roundtimes for several weapons and unarmed attacks were adjusted.
- Damage rates for all MELEE weapons and unarmed attacks were reviewed and changes were made to most attacks and weapons. This includes creature attack such as bite, claw, etc.
- In general, slower weapons will have a greater overall potential to do damage than smaller weapons. Likewise for slow vs. fast unarmed attacks.

04.14.05 updates:
- Overall damage rates for all armed/unarmed attacks have been lowered significantly.
- All fired weapons have been rebalanced to have damage per second rates in line with melee weapons and unarmed.
- Generally speaking, fired weapons inflict more damage than melee weapons.
- Load times for several guns and pulse weapons were altered. In most cases, they were lowered.
- The damage modifier applied to creatures based on (lack of) vitality has been reduced.
- The bonuses and penalties to damage based on stance have been lowered.
- Critical hits are now applied to damage before the "term" for damage is applied. In the past a "good" hit might be upgraded to "strong" on a critical hit but players weren't notified of this and saw a "good" hit followed by a notice they received a critical hit. With this update, players would see a "strong" hit, and no notification of a critical shot.
- The chance to land critical hits was reduced, while the damage bonus for a critical hit was increased.
- Traits and flaws that modify the chance to land or receive critical hits now have greater influence.
- Damage bonuses are now applied in a single combined modifier rather than exponentially applied on top of each other.
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nelle
Ooh Nuuurse..


Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 355
Location: Llanfair Morgue

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:59 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Who's crying?
_________________
Stay true to yourself no matter the cost and you'll always know who you are.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:23 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Nelle wrote:
Who's crying?


People on the comms and thoughts that always complain.

Okay. New information.

Royal guard (level 50) vs Kit Murphy (level 59).

Kit shot the guard ten rounds without aiming. He hit the guard only 50% of the time. The guard got to melee, but he dodged the one attack before Kit actually retreated (the 'retreat' command comes after every 'shoot guard head' command).

My thoughts...wow, it took a long time to kill someone 9 levels below my main character. Wow, it doged the pulse streams so much!
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage

AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Warner
Sneaky Locksmithiness


Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 213
Location: The Armpit of the Universe

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

for the sake of combat's re-evaulation:

Information for Vyrath Kartklin, Level 23 Human Agent

Agility : 45 (62) Age : 86 seasons
Charisma : 15 (19) Race : Human
Coordination : 33 (50) Gender : Male
Intellect : 20 Height : 5'11"
Mentality : 16 (17) Weight : 175 lbs.
Perception : 25 (33) Alignment : Fair (Good)
Strength : 33 (38 Restores : 0
Vitality : 5 (10) Revives : 2

Encumbrance: You are not encumbered.
Armor Hindrance: You are unhindered by your armor.
Bladed Weapons : 69 (79)
Stealth : 75 (83)
You lay a hand upon a graceful eilaro airaece with an intricately decorated swept golden hilt and focus intently upon it.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
>
This object amazingly enhances one's bladed weapons skill.
been sent to the vale unsure if it's maxed

>ambush eosh head
You leap out of your hiding place and catch an eosheai by surprise!
Stumbling awkwardly, you slash a graceful eilaro airaece with an intricately decorated swept golden hilt at an eosheai. Amazingly, you land a slight hit to his head as an eosheai fails to dodge the attack.
An eosheai looks sick as the poison on your standard airaece takes hold.
[You are balanced, healthy, well rested, and your inner focus is strong.]
Roundtime: 8 sec.
slight hit with the move every other profession brings up when an agent
says we're sucky.
got similar hits with just standing in the open

average time to kill a koru hunter with a gridgun was usually 4-6 shots
snapped at melee range
now it takes roughly 20 or more
getting same results in every other hunting zone except grags
actually do alright there.not understanding why it takes 12 seconds to bodyslam an arackus either (aren't they fist sized at birth?)
Also noticed bodyslam's damage definatly went down.
will news 16 be updated to reflect the changes made with this combat "update" ?
_________________
>You allow Stilldawn to undress you.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:57 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

part of me loved seeing 'critical hit!'

can we still have that message? Very Happy

and, uh, while i'm hardly complaining, did the gun thing happen yet? i notice no difference at all, and while i'd love to claim it is because i am incredibly awesome, i'm not sure if that is really the case.
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Combat & Hunting » Combat Updates, Feedback
Post new topic   Reply to topic All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 29, 30, 31  Next
Page 1 of 31

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Top Index




Solaris phpBB theme/template by Jakob Persson
Copyright © Jakob Persson 2003



Powered by phpBB 2.0.22 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group