 |
|
 |
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Warner
Sneaky Locksmithiness
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 213
Location: The Armpit of the Universe
|
 Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| In my il-"legitimat" post, I was begging someone to just give you the omnipotent 25th-level-10-vitality nuclear power you seem to feel entitled to, both to get the wad out of your panties and to shut you up from crying, "SIMU! SIMU!" every time something impacts you rather than bolsters or enhances you. I mean, Christ, you remind me of my niece when something doesn't go her way... and she's four. If you saw wit or sarcasm in that, you were trying too hard to find it. |
LOL
Here let me break it down to you in one simple word:function
now let's take a look at that word.
func·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fngkshn)
n.
The action for which a person or thing is particularly fitted or employed
Assigned duty or activity.
A specific occupation or role
Vyrath's key function is a combatant/hunter. Schools out thanks.
_________________
>You allow Stilldawn to undress you. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind
|
| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Kit: You simply need more choices of what to hunt, and we're working on this. How do you fare vs. vacori or getok hounds? |
So...I went up to hounds...burns! Ouch! I didn't even get them to spawn to try and hunt them before I had to talisman back to CC to get to the ER real fast.
And I can't get to vacori because you have to climb Tzon. ;.; I'm sad...there's nothing I don't have have to spend 60 skill points on to hunt.
Edit:
Just went down to paladins. I can't hit them anymore...and a full aim is like 10 seconds. On the plus side, it filled my head, even if they beat me down good.
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage
AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/ |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship
|
| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HR-Trevor wrote: |
| I'm not sure why you would believe a weapon should be vastly more powerful because of where it was bought. I'm also not sure if you're trying to say guns should blow away, say, swords.. or what. |
the advantage of the multi-shot guns, previously (at least in my mind) was that it fired two/three bullets at once, each hitting like a normal sidearm.
ie: a sidearm hits for 10, a gun that fires two bullets hits for 10+10, a gun that fires three hits for 10+10+10... etc.
now, it's a sidearm hits for 10, a gun hites for 5+5 (or is it like 7+7?) and so on. in fact, it is better (in my mind) to use two sidearms as opposed to a rifle that shoots two (or even three) bullets, just because i'll be more likely to do a lot of damage even if one misses.
the problem now is that, from my own testing with a notably lower level creature, the weapon that just does it's entire payload in one bullet is a lot better than one that fires a lot of bullets at once.
as far as i'm aware when it comes to things like doubleslash and so on, it isn't like doubleslash hits multiple areas but still gives the same rough damage total as a single slash.
now, granted, doubleslash has a higher rt than a single slash, but i thought from the start that missle weapons were 'special' compared to normal melee ones because strength to swing wasn't an issue. but i can see that being applied here, too.
what i personally would like is for multi-bullet multi-pulse weapons to have a 1 second rt for each bullet it fires, and have them hit as well as (or better than) a single shot weapon.
ie: a sidearm hits for 10 damage total and is a 1 second rt. dual sidearms hit for 20 damage total and is a 2 second rt. a tg23-x [should] hit for 25 damage total and have a 2 second rt. an assault rifle [should] hit for 40 damage and have a 3 second rt.
is that a better arguement, i hope?
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY
|
| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
the advantage of the multi-shot guns, previously (at least in my mind) was that it fired two/three bullets at once, each hitting like a normal sidearm.
ie: a sidearm hits for 10, a gun that fires two bullets hits for 10+10, a gun that fires three hits for 10+10+10... etc. |
There no way that can be balanced. Simply impossible. If a sword does 10 damage in 6 seconds, and a gun does 10 damage in the same 6 seconds (figure in partial aim time) and then you let a gun jump to 10+10 or 10+10+10, you can see where the balance problem comes in right?
I guess you might be assuming that you could just have a sword that does 20 or 30 damage in 6 seconds to balance it out, but that's another problem. Each body area has 76 of what you could call hit points. Never more, never less. When you get to the 76+ threshhold that body area is toast. If one weapon does 10 points in a shot, and another does 30 points in a shot, you can see where the scale of lethality has become exponentially exaggerated and unsustainable in terms of balance.
| Quote: |
| now, it's a sidearm hits for 10, a gun hites for 5+5 (or is it like 7+7?) and so on. |
This is not entirely true. The sidearm might do 10 where the rifle does 5+6 or 6+6 or something, depending on the rifle. And yes it could be 7+7 possibly, as well.
| Quote: |
| in fact, it is better (in my mind) to use two sidearms as opposed to a rifle that shoots two (or even three) bullets, just because i'll be more likely to do a lot of damage even if one misses. |
I think you're missing a vital point. We're not out to make sidearms better than rifles or rifles better than sidearms. They are alternative choices. Now we -do- make specific rifles better than specific sidearms and vice-versa on a per comparison basis, but that's different than comparing one class of weapon to another. And in fact, because of the value of hitting lethal body areas and the fact you get twice the chance to do so with a two-shot weapon, that two-shot weapon will usually be slightly less powerful than a one shot weapon. Again however, this is only a generalization and specific weapon comparisons don't always hold up to this standard.
| Quote: |
| the problem now is that, from my own testing with a notably lower level creature, the weapon that just does it's entire payload in one bullet is a lot better than one that fires a lot of bullets at once. |
This could be the case, but I think you may be mistaken. I can tell you that since the updates yesterday morning, without a doubt the TG23-X does more damage than an officer's sidearm. However, the difference is slight, and you may not notice it. Any theory you're basing off of testing before that update should be discarded as obsolete, and further, any testing you do should be considered sketchy at best. I realize the value of play from a player's perspective, but the facts are that I have emulated your skills, stat, level, etc and used these weapons against a variety of targets and checked the damage done after each hit and the hp lost after each hit and have found that the TG23-X consistently outdamages the officer's sidearm almost every shot.
| Quote: |
as far as i'm aware when it comes to things like doubleslash and so on, it isn't like doubleslash hits multiple areas but still gives the same rough damage total as a single slash.
now, granted, doubleslash has a higher rt than a single slash, but i thought from the start that missle weapons were 'special' compared to normal melee ones because strength to swing wasn't an issue. but i can see that being applied here, too. |
Doubleslash uses a large amount of stamina to perform, it's sort of a "special attack". This is different than changing weapons.
| Quote: |
what i personally would like is for multi-bullet multi-pulse weapons to have a 1 second rt for each bullet it fires, and have them hit as well as (or better than) a single shot weapon.
ie: a sidearm hits for 10 damage total and is a 1 second rt. dual sidearms hit for 20 damage total and is a 2 second rt. a tg23-x [should] hit for 25 damage total and have a 2 second rt. an assault rifle [should] hit for 40 damage and have a 3 second rt. |
This would be like suggesting one blade should do 10 damage with a RT of 6, another blade with a RT of 7 might do 20 and another with a RT of 8 might do 30. That's not going to be happening.
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship
|
| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
thanks for all the response stuff.
i'm not seeing (from my end, i'm sure numbers wise it is working, after all you have nothing to gain from lying) how it is useful at to use anything but a gun that fires one shot now, but thanks for putting the effort to convince me.
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
I realize that paladins are 7 levels above Kit, but I still can't hit them before they do some really really nasty damage. I even waited the full aiming time. I don't know how people hunt so far above their levels.
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage
AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/ |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Tugor
Orgasm Donor
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 1483
Location: Yeah. . .right.
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 8:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
I just want to say I hate 10 seconds for full aiming RT AND the addition of the damage of snap shots being reduced to near nothing. Ranged attacks may have been overpowered before but now they just totally suck.
10 seconds is an insane amount of time for a fully aimed shot, ESPECIALLY with the penalties that come from not aiming(see initial statement).
In 10 seconds someone can easily just move once they notice you aiming at them, cast a few spells at you then move to another room, which disrupts your careful aiming. Someone could hide, or cast paralyze on you or blind.
They could probably even advance on you and make it to melee and attack you once or twice within that time. A guardian could jumpkick/flying kick you and be at melee instantly and attack a few more times as well before you had full aim.
With the case of melee complaints, with the power reduction of snap shots even if I'm shooting them at point blank range(I.e melee) it still won't do shit for damage and they will just laugh at my pathetic attempts to hurt them(which is what I would do if someone shot me from melee and it barely hurt me).
I feel that all the reallocates I've used to test different weapon choices and different fighting styles have all been for nothing. All the time I invested in researching attack types and weapon types and stat training, again for nothing.
We will get to retrain stats and skills I'm hoping but even with that we will still have to guess with all these radical changes. As of now I sure as hell won't be investing in any ranged weaponry even though I've spent millions on items geared towards pulse.
I know these changes are supposed to be for the best but forgive me if I just can't see it.
_________________
It is better to be pissed off than pissed on. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
I really had to agree with Tshar. Kit can't hunt...well, he can, but it's not worth it to die every few minutes, or to get no experience. I understand it's because there is a lack of higher up creatures...but it's horribly frustrating because hunting is really the only way for a tech to make a livelyhood now that foraging has been downtweaked. Add the huge amount of time it takes to aim to the much less damage and it seems that everyone with a gun -- including the already weak damage pulsegun users -- and people that don't use magic and aren't combat primary in the first place so already have weak defenses/attack power...and it pretty much means that hunting is out for characters like Kit.
Also...if we retrain stats...how will cybergear work? Are we all going to have to sit at the cybershop for a few hours to get reimplanted?
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage
AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/ |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Sorkaa
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 448
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I hate when people post big logs, but I thought this was pretty funny:
| Code: |
You feel your shot is ready.
fire ku chest
Taking a chance on a tricky shot, you fire a reflective telyron-plated splattergun with a halxna dragon coiled around the stock at the Modan Kucho. Mercilessly, you land a weak hit to his chest as the Modan Kucho fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
[You are fairly well balanced, in great shape, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>aim ku
You begin to aim a shot at the Modan Kucho.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
The distinct whirring sound that barely emanates from a reflective telyron-plated splattergun with a halxna dragon coiled around the stock informs you that it is ready to fire again.
fire ku chest
Concentrating on the shot, you fire a reflective telyron-plated splattergun with a halxna dragon coiled around the stock at the Modan Kucho. In a display of true skill, you land a weak hit to his chest as the Modan Kucho fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
[You are fairly well balanced, in great shape, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Moving as gracefully as a charging argabu, the Modan Kucho rakes a claw at you. Without hesitation, you dodge the attack.
[You are fairly well balanced, in great shape, and well rested.]
>fire ku chest
Fumbling a bit in the process of taking a shot, you fire a reflective telyron-plated splattergun with a halxna dragon coiled around the stock at the Modan Kucho. Amazingly, you land a superficial hit to his chest as the Modan Kucho fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
... another shot hits the Modan Kucho in the chest!
[You are fairly well balanced, in great shape, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
l ku
The Modan Kucho has a wounded chest.
The Modan Kucho has moderate bleeding from his chest. |
I'm not complaining (I understand all weapons need to be equal), and I realize only one shot was fully aimed..but compared to the damage I used to do, it's rather amusing that 15 direct hits to the chest didn't result in death.
And just as a note, it's also interesting that every time I start with a full aim, all five shots hit - and the Kucho has a scuffed chest. I guess I'm getting weaker hits with the multi-shot weapon, but as I said, just something different to marvel at.
Last edited by Sorkaa on Thu May 19, 2005 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Finally managed to get my hands on a splattergun. Argh. Talk about a bad move. It took almost three times as long to kill something with it. And, fully aiming it takes even longer than with my spheres. I know you're working hard on combat...I know techs aren't combat primary...but right now, that's the only viable source of income for techs. It's...just frustrating not to be able to hunt.
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage
AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/ |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Sorkaa
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 448
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Then based on your and Yaru's experience, I'm just curious..is there now or will there ever be an advantage to using a two-handed gun? |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
HR-Mickey
Cloverfield Monster
Joined: 24 Nov 2002
Posts: 1844
Location: I've Got No 'billy
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Guys, just out of curiousity, what was your plan of approach after the opening of Live, when the skill, stat, and possibly combat system (along with most everything else) is reformatted and written?
Don't get me wrong, I want to feel sympathetic that intensive min-max research and reallocation donates have gone out the window in the pursuit of uber-ness, but the fact of the matter is that balance and making things works gets prioritized over whether a given individual can beat down x player/mob in record time; demanding the latter is simply an unrealistic (not to mention unfair) player expectation, no matter what face you put on it. I expect a fair amount of retaliation and vitriol for putting that out there, but I think everybody's a little too quick to throw out the baby with the bath water.
The sky isn't falling. I promise.
_________________
Mickey Brunner
To make a long story short, don't tell it.
I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's just that I can gather that techs aren't combat-ish save for the bonus in pulse we get....but we don't have the mass creation systems that artisans have....and the one system we do have relies on combat to get the pieces. And poor medics! They don't have a creation system at all (though I know this will change by live). So hunting, unfortunately, is the only way to get good exp, good money. It just sucks right now, for me, because there's nothing to hunt for several more levels.
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage
AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/ |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
HR-Beau
The Good Fairy
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1057
Location: Aena Sur, Isle of Esia
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just think of all the loot and cash you attained pre-combat rewrite as one of the perks of playing a Beta game. Don't think of it as what you're no longer being allowed to earn, but as what you earned that you shouldn't have been able to get because things were balanced. Besides, in this test instance of the game, all you should really be worrying about is experience. Its the only thing you'll be allowed to keep some of.
_________________
If there is one thing in the world that I know, love conquers all, it trancends time and space, defies all odds, and can bring you back from the darkness, it is the guiding light that helps bring you in from the rough stormy seas of life, and it remains even after you have gone.
~ Adam ~
www.angeluserratus.net |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Tugor
Orgasm Donor
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 1483
Location: Yeah. . .right.
|
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You can't expect us as players to just take everything in stride and see the best in every change without even focusing on the bad. That would be too utopian. Like I said, I 'know' the changes are for the better but I don't see it yet.
I know we've had fair warning about the changes to combat but words and warnings can't really prepare us for the actual implimentation of the changes and the effects they have on us.
Anyways, the changes are fresh, people are griping. Soon it will blow over and things will be accepted as normal. That's how it always is. It was the same way in DR, always an uproar with changes that lasted a short time then everyone got over it. </endrant>
_________________
It is better to be pissed off than pissed on. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
 |
|
|
 |
|
