Combat Updates, Feedback

[epol]

Understanding that this is a beta period by both players and GMs might help a bit. I was upset last night, when the area that makes most sense for me to hunt based on the recent treasure changes (read treasure change thread analysis I posted) is now a difficult area to hunt.

So, what do I mean by difficult. Again, being a Guardian of level 23 I must fight unarmed and at Melee. Here are my stats and skills without any psionics or spells.



Agility : 30 (40) Age : 200 seasons
Charisma : 25 (30) Race : Eolai
Coordination : 40 (52) Gender : Male
Intellect : 20 Height : 5'11"
Mentality : 25 Weight : 175 lbs.
Perception : 30 (31) Alignment : Just (Good)
Strength : 30 Restores : 0
Vitality : 30 Revives : 0

Encumbrance: You are minimally encumbered.
Armor Hindrance: You are unhindered by your armor.

Resistances:
Blunt : 26% Cold : 19% Electrical: 19%
Erosion : 19% Heat : 19% Magic : 13%
Mental : 14% Piercing : 26% Poison : 8%
Slashing : 26%


Acrobatics : 67 (73) Psionic Ability : 42
Alchemy : 40 Research : 36
Archery : 4 Riding : 4
Climbing : 10 (9) Security : 44 (46)
Ecology : 50 (40) Skinning : 10
Evasion : 67 (74) Spell Casting : 39
Fishing : 15 Spell Research : 54
Handle Animal : 4 Stealth : 60
Intimidation : 23 Swimming : 10 (12)
Light Armor : 0 (5) Tactics : 20
Occult Lore : 56 Tracking : 4
Parry : 66 (71) Unarmed Combat : 66 (82)

My pummel RT went from 7-8 up to 12
My bodyslam RT went from 4 up to 7-8
Likewise most unarmed moves went up about 50-75%
I tried all my stances, but nothing really reduced RT significantly, so I stay with blade.



To Zamde's point of why would anyone use anything but pummel? Well, if all you use in unarmed, then you will become very tire and off balance if you don't use other moves. I typically set up the creature with hiptoss, jab, and kicks...occasionaly hooks, uppercuts, and roundhouses, then go for the finishing kill with a headbutt and pummel.

Before you jump in and think this is a whino-gram, just hear it out first.

1) It is taking me much longer to kill creatures in the Fen, no doubt about it.
2) Only zerks and warriors will really yield a reward due to the treasure changes.
3) Magic for non-mages was weakened considerably, thus pretty much eliminating my source of range attack.
4) Because it takes so much longer to kill a creature (I estimate 3-4 times longer), I took on significantly more damage, meaning I had to leave earlier to go heal. This reduces reward throughput as well.
5) Before that change today to lower the creature generation rate, I was overwhelmed by creatures because I couldn't take them out fast enough (more damage)

So I talk offline with someon about it last night. They say, he, just reallocate. I tell them that option is no longer there and explain the story of what happened.

Here's the rub, and all the GMs that I have complained to, please see it from a player's perspective THAT has no idea the logic behind each change, except what might be shared in the forum or on the side. THE GAME is in beta....changes are needed, and that is understandable. BUT, those changes have a huge affect on how we build our character traits, flaws, stats, and skills.

Example 1, I reallocated Epol about 3-4 weeks before the magic changes. Based on how magic was working, I felt it was good to invest in it at the time. I took away all my skinning and some other miscellaneous skills, and poured it into magic. The changes came out, and had a profound impact on my magic capabilities. Fair enough.

I am afraid to invest more in psionics because those are to change. AS a player who is here to enjoy themselves at least give us some way of adapting our traits, flaws, stats, and skills to the changes. Reallocation was the way before. I accept, but disagree, with how the situation was dealt with. Personally, I feel the individual should have been delt with, not everyone. Realocations ARE needed to allow the players to adapt. These aren't minor tweaks being done. The changes can greatly weaken 100s of skill points that were invested.

If magic changes significantly, why not give everyone back their magic skill pool to see what they do with it? That's how it is going to play out later/live anyhow. If you change combat significantly, and affection how traits and flaws are calculated, why not let players have the pull of combat skills back, or redo traits and flaws?


This is the most frustrating part to me. Change is inevitable. Especially in beta release of the game. But, we are the beta customers. I do not feel like I understand why changes are made and the goals of them, even though I read the forums and talk with players and GMs. There might be someone out there that liked the magic changes, but I haven't found them yet. WE will be more tolerant and accepting of change if we understand in detail the basis for it, are forewarned when it is coming, and most importantly, can adapt our characters to the changes. Honestly, there are 93 skill points of magic up there on my list that are totally wasted. I don't even study the magic book I have anymore, it just has no real value in my play.

We as the beta custumers must be given the opportunity to adapt our characters to the changes that you Trevor and the GMs are making to steer the game where you want it or where it needs to be. Come go live, you will not have an accurate beta of how your changes will be played out, because character stats, skills, traits, and flaws were not built under the same rules and game is going live under....they were built under ever changing rules. This beta testing period will not be accurate, unless you allow us to change with your changes. Then, you will see how the go live implementation will really play out.

[soundless]

not to target just one statement, but...

[epol]

And why is it bad that they'd invest the points in that?

Isn't that how it will happen during go live? I realize that not all the same current feelings and biases will exist them, but people WILL learn how best to invest their skills for their chosen race and profession.

Isn't that what the beta players are for? Seeing how the population behaves relative to the changes made to the game?

[epol]

As a measurement of kill time.

32 seconds of RT to kill an eobis worker
bodyslam 8 seconds
kick 4 seconds
headbutt 4 seconds
pummel 12 seconds
pummel again (1/2 the hits) 6 seconds

This was previously a one or 2 bodyslam kill, with each maneuver being about 3-4 seconds

Eobis workers yield no treasure normally, due to the delta in level between them and me.

[Kit]

Before we go live, the new EXP system will come out...and we'll be able to get all of our points back anyhow. The new XP system will come out AFTER magic and AFTER combat changes, so you'll be okay...whenever nskills is implemented.

Besides, once we hit live, you won't have reallocations anyhow. If you mess up, you just gotta live with it. The cool thing about HR is that you can just forage for a couple of levels and you can right yourself out again.
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage

AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/

[Warner]

this is just disappointing, and a graphic display of something being wrong here



>rem grid
You slide off a greyish-green gridgun with black accents from over your shoulder.
>fire for head
[Telepathy] Earthheart Dominato projects: Nelle come join us, you can sit my by me if your good.
Patiently waiting for a good shot, you fire a greyish-green gridgun with black accents at a middle-aged forager. In short order, you land a superficial hit to her head as a middle-aged forager fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right eye!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left foot!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the head!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right foot!
[You are balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>
Stumbling at the last moment, a middle-aged forager throws a quick jab at you. Unsurprisingly, you dodge the attack with ease.
[You are balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
>fire for head
Concentrating on the shot, you fire a greyish-green gridgun with black accents at a middle-aged forager. In a display of true skill, you land a weak hit to her left hand as a middle-aged forager fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the chest!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the abdomen!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right eye!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the chest!
[You are balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>fire for head
You feel fully rested.
Fumbling a bit in the process of taking a shot, you fire a greyish-green gridgun with black accents at a middle-aged forager. Amazingly, you land a superficial hit to her left foot as a middle-aged forager fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left leg!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left leg!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right eye!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the head!
[You are balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Defender of the Crown Dixie Pierce arrives from the north, leading her group.
>
Defender of the Crown Dixie Pierce leads her group northwest.
[Telepathy] Sean Fiachra projects: Someone bring milk and cookies!
[Telepathy] Nelle Dgnara projects: Like I said, too social.
>
Stumbling at the last moment, a middle-aged forager throws a quick jab at you. Unsurprisingly, you dodge the attack with ease.
[You are fairly well balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
The distinct whirring sound that barely emanates from a greyish-green gridgun with black accents informs you that it is ready to fire again.
>fire
Patiently waiting for a good shot, you fire a greyish-green gridgun with black accents at a middle-aged forager. In short order, you land a weak hit to her head as a middle-aged forager fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left leg!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right foot!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left hand!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the chest!
A middle-aged forager is completely dazed by the attack!
[You are fairly well balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
The distinct whirring sound that barely emanates from a greyish-green gridgun with black accents informs you that it is ready to fire again.
>fire
Fumbling a bit in the process of taking a shot, you fire a greyish-green gridgun with black accents at a middle-aged forager. Amazingly, you land a weak hit to her right eye as a middle-aged forager fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right hand!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the abdomen!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right foot!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the abdomen!
[You are balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>
The distinct whirring sound that barely emanates from a greyish-green gridgun with black accents informs you that it is ready to fire again.
>fire
Concentrating on the shot, you fire a greyish-green gridgun with black accents at a middle-aged forager. In a display of true skill, you land a weak hit to her left eye as a middle-aged forager fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right foot!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left eye!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the chest!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the back!
[You are balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>
A middle-aged forager is no longer stunned.
>round
exp
Moving in quickly, you spin into a roundhouse, aiming for a middle-aged forager. In a display of true skill, you land a weak hit to her left leg as a middle-aged forager fails to dodge the attack.
[You are fairly well balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>
Experience information for Vyrath Kartklin (Level 23 Human Agent)

Experience : 667590 Skill training points : 3
Next Level : 22410 Stat training points : 6

You feel inspired to learn and experience new things.

Your last image was taken 21 hours, 7 minutes, and 8 seconds ago.
If you were to roll back to this image, you would lose 7123 experience points and 0 levels.
>
Moving gracefully, a middle-aged forager throws a quick jab at you. Shockingly, you dodge the attack in a feat of pure luck.
[You are fairly well balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
>fire
... wait 1 second.
The distinct whirring sound that barely emanates from a greyish-green gridgun with black accents informs you that it is ready to fire again.
fire
>Hoping to make the best of a poor shot, you fire a greyish-green gridgun with black accents at a middle-aged forager. Somehow, you land a superficial hit to her head as a middle-aged forager fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right arm!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right eye!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left arm!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left eye!
[You are fairly well balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
The distinct whirring sound that barely emanates from a greyish-green gridgun with black accents informs you that it is ready to fire again.
>fire
[Telepathy] Earthheart Dominato projects: Nelle do come. come hang with me and jade.
Siezing a perfect moment, you fire a greyish-green gridgun with black accents at a middle-aged forager. You land a weak hit to her head as a middle-aged forager fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left hand!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right eye!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the back!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left hand!
[You are fairly well balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
The distinct whirring sound that barely emanates from a greyish-green gridgun with black accents informs you that it is ready to fire again.
>fire
Taking advantage of an opening, you fire a greyish-green gridgun with black accents at a middle-aged forager. With finesse, you land a weak hit to her left eye as a middle-aged forager fails to dodge the attack.
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the right eye!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the neck!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left hand!
... another shot hits a middle-aged forager in the left arm!
[You are fairly well balanced, healthy, and well rested.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>
A middle-aged forager wanders off.


13 levels lower and i couldn't even kill it fast enuff with a vale'd gridgun
_________________
>You allow Stilldawn to undress you.

[Kit]

Well damn.

It too me 5 rounds (10 shots total) to kill a borkin warrior. That's 30 levels under me.
_________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage

AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/

[zamde]

Three separate, and deliciously lengthy, logs.

I. Missile range combat, no aiming.

[HR-Trevor]

[SolitaryTurnip]

[zamde]

I've always taken the weakness of additional hits to be extra stacks in a cumulative flurry. So if a 'good' hit was worth 20 damage (just using abstract numbers), then
A good hit to the right eye!
... another hit to the wing!
... another hit to the head!
... another hit to the right eye!

would be 80 points of scattered (or potentially concentrated) damage, compared to a 50 point 'serious' hit.
_________________
An eye for an eye; but my eye's worth more.

Dixie Pierce says, "I heard Zamde can't have kids cause she lactates poison."

[Telepathy] Yaru Dex projects: I thought Zamde doesn't have kids because her womb is full of aisobs.

You can't spell "slaughter" without 'laughter'.

Llanfair Anti-Cyber Brigade Member #0000

[Gabriel]

[epol]

[Gabriel]

[Warner]

i think pummel is more along the lines of a fast hard attack

you dont say "i pummeled you with my newspaper"
you would say "i pummeled you with my fists"
where does that fit in?

well if i hit you four times very fast with a newspaper you'd look at me strange
but if i jumped ontop of you and started hammering your face with my fists
i'd call it PUMMELing you

and if the outlook on pummel is that it is a "normal punch"
then where's the reward in training unarmed past
the point to get bodyslam? (read:why waste points?)
_________________
>You allow Stilldawn to undress you.