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soundless EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 5970 Location: Spaceship
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject: half teasing |
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like everyone being able to tailor (but not as well as artisans...and trackers, sorta)
like everyone being able to whittle (once again, as above)
like every other crafting skillset...
...why can't everyone craft gadgets, but not as well as techs?
yes, i'm being a butthead. but only half a butthead. i'm wondering what makes gadgets such a seperate thing that noone with electronics training can manage, meanwhile everyone can whittle/tailor/craft armor/etc.
i don't know. what with this whole "artisans are obsolete" thing going on (which, naturally, i'm not thrilled over), and the whole arguement that everyone should be able to choose what they want to star in when it comes to making stuff, why is this making stuff system limited to one group of people? _________________ A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
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Brokyn LLAMA SECHS
Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 3648 Location: Northern Georgia
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Note: To anyone that overtly attacks this post, I will not hesitate to post goatse and tubgirl.
--William _________________
Haelrahv Wiki!
++Brown Nosing Points |
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Tugor Orgasm Donor
Joined: 18 Oct 2003 Posts: 1483 Location: Yeah. . .right.
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. With all this talk of the eradication of the Artisan profession, I think that making gadgets should be open to all. Of course, only Techs would be able to make some of the high end stuff. _________________ It is better to be pissed off than pissed on. |
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fatboy
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 229
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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I concur. |
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Sorkaa
Joined: 02 Aug 2003 Posts: 448
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to preface this by saying I'm honestly not trying to be "gimme-gimme" here.
Anyway, I always thought of restoring parts and figuring out how to put them together into some sort of working electronic device was more specific than just whittling something or sewing it together. Maybe it's just not as intuitive as sculpting etc.?
Ultimately I'm not sure there can be a reason, same as there really is no reason why only Artisans can paint with ishaik(?) or weave. Of course, if you're going to nix the profession..well..why can't everyone just repair medical devices, too? |
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soundless EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 5970 Location: Spaceship
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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sidenote: don't get me wrong. i am beyond thrilled that techs are getting something to make people go to them.
but, being a butthead that i am, i also have to ask the questions of why they get a creation system that is limited only to them, yet non artisans can do everything i can, just not with the amount of awesome detail that valla has given us in the past month (which i completely adore, naturally!). _________________ A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
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Sorkaa
Joined: 02 Aug 2003 Posts: 448
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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soundless wrote: |
non artisans can do everything i can |
Not weave or tattoo. *poke* |
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Tugor Orgasm Donor
Joined: 18 Oct 2003 Posts: 1483 Location: Yeah. . .right.
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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So one could naturally argue that anyone with some electronics\crafting etc. would be able to make simple gadgets, but the really complex items would be limited to Techs.
Sorkaa wrote: |
Not weave or tattoo. *poke* |
Yes but both those skills are purely cosmetic. Gagdets will range greatly in usefulness. _________________ It is better to be pissed off than pissed on. |
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Brokyn LLAMA SECHS
Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 3648 Location: Northern Georgia
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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To say nothing of the fact that weaving is just a sub-system within the tailoring system. You don't have to weave in order to participate in tailoring. With "Gadgeting", I'd assume you'd have to build individual components.. which would require you to be a technician at this point.
I don't know how to explain tattoos being Artisan-only, though. Unless there's some kind of special technique that requires special training. Like henna, but even that can be learned somewhat.
--William _________________
Haelrahv Wiki!
++Brown Nosing Points |
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soundless EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 5970 Location: Spaceship
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Sorkaa wrote: |
I'd like to preface this by saying I'm honestly not trying to be "gimme-gimme" here. |
i know you're not. while i can swear up to the mountains that this thread isn't an attempt to enter a flame war, i can also understand how it can be misinterpeted as such. believe me, i'm all for techs having this tech-only creation system. but with the most-likely being-pretty-considered eradication of my own profession because the crafting systems should be specializations available to all other professions, i don't get why this creation system has some kind of magical field around it.
i'm pushing the quesiton for the sake of discussion. because while i am hardly the most productive board monkey here, i also would like to see more discussions about why things work what way once live comes along, sorta like the discussions held before this beta came out.
Quote: |
Anyway, I always thought of restoring parts and figuring out how to put them together into some sort of working electronic device was more specific than just whittling something or sewing it together. Maybe it's just not as intuitive as sculpting etc.? |
i think that's not giving enough credit to people doing design. skill points are skill points. if a non tech maxed out electronics, how are they oblivious to making a little dancing robot?
look at it this way:
a tech should be able to make a levitation device, in theory, that goes, say, 10 feet off the ground.
a non tech, on the other hand, would only be able to make one that goes 6 feet off the ground.
this is similar to how backpacks, for example, work. a tracker with maxed tailoring can do something like a 105 pound backpack. an artisan can do more than that.
Quote: |
Ultimately I'm not sure there can be a reason, same as there really is no reason why only Artisans can paint with ishaik(?) or weave. Of course, if you're going to nix the profession..well..why can't everyone just repair medical devices, too? |
compare it more to how everyone can repair cyberparts, but after a certain point only techs are capable of doing so. i agree with weaving, but that is more a specialization of the tailoring system. anyone can use a fabrc to tailor a good. only an artisan can make the fabric. anyone can make pants. only an artisan can make cargo pants.
in that theme of thinking, everyone can build a tiny robot that carries 10 pounds for them and shoots a laser dealing 5 damage. meanwhile, the tech can make the 20 pound capacity robot that shoots a laser hitting everyone for 10 damage. sorta like how everyone can cast singeing strike, yet only mages can use incinerate. _________________ A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
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zamde Maestro
Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 211
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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I don't really care about making a robot; from what I know of the droids, you don't need skill to have one do stuff, you just command it to do stuff and it ignores you if you don't own it. So basically, I just want to buy one to order around, or, taking an example from how lots of people felt about the Trooper stuff being available to people with an inside connection, have a tech buy one for me. _________________ An eye for an eye; but my eye's worth more.
Dixie Pierce says, "I heard Zamde can't have kids cause she lactates poison."
[Telepathy] Yaru Dex projects: I thought Zamde doesn't have kids because her womb is full of aisobs.
You can't spell "slaughter" without 'laughter'.
Llanfair Anti-Cyber Brigade Member #0000 |
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Sorkaa
Joined: 02 Aug 2003 Posts: 448
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Longest post ever devoted to a point I already conceded..while ignoring my counterpoint. Like I said, if Artisans no longer exist and everyone can do everything, of course everyone should make gadgets. Yes, we have the wonderful example of how everyone repairs cybergear. But what keeps you from repairing minor damage in comms and medical devices? Why can't you install even the simplest chips?
I guess I'm just not that deep a thinker; I've never once questioned why anything was limited to one profession. I just figure that's the way the developer meant for it to be. |
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soundless EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 5970 Location: Spaceship
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Sorkaa wrote: |
I guess I'm just not that deep a thinker; I've never once questioned why anything was limited to one profession. I just figure that's the way the developer meant for it to be. |
since the game is being developed, and trevor loves feedback from the player base, i think he appreciates it when questions like these are raised.
as long as it doesn't consist of "HOLY SHIT I HATE YOU ALL THIS THING SUX" and so on.
as i said, i'm not against the tech only gadget system. i'm happy with what i have. i'm just wondering why it is defined differently than other crafting systems. _________________ A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
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Kit Cybertech Extraordinaire~
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 3071 Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Tugor wrote: |
So one could naturally argue that anyone with some electronics\crafting etc. would be able to make simple gadgets, but the really complex items would be limited to Techs.
Sorkaa wrote: |
Not weave or tattoo. *poke* |
Yes but both those skills are purely cosmetic. Gagdets will range greatly in usefulness. |
Not to belittle you, but picking up a paintbrush and trying to tattoo and picking up a needle to sew are something five year olds can do (My grandmother taught me to sew papertowels when I was 5. Aww.) However, sodering metal together and cooking up applinces...a tiny bit more complicated.
It's not just hammering and gluing and wielding a sodering iron. There are circuitboards and fuses to goof around with. Sure, let everyone put together the flashlight...but building a computer...or even a toaster...is just beyond people not specifically trained in electronics (And I don't mean use of electronics, but building them..and that usually requires going to tech school).
This sort of thing is definately different from arts and crafts. It's not like we have erector sets for the dabblers. _________________ "I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam Savage
AIM: KitMurphyHR
Email: yojibalinese@hotmail.com
Technician Database: http://tech.haelrahv.net/ |
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soundless EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 5970 Location: Spaceship
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Kit wrote: |
Not to belittle you, but picking up a paintbrush and trying to tattoo and picking up a needle to sew are something five year olds can do (My grandmother taught me to sew papertowels when I was 5. Aww.) However, sodering metal together and cooking up applinces...a tiny bit more complicated. |
kit, you need to stop using real life in these arguements.
first off, other than yaru, the min age for everyone is, like, 16. so noone is 5.
second off, what do you think training in electronics means? just the ability to use electric things, or the ability to use and make electronic things.
Quote: |
This sort of thing is definately different from arts and crafts. It's not like we have erector sets for the dabblers. |
stop acting like things that don't involve machines can be done by monkeys. _________________ A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
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