skill point spending system brain fart

[Orodreth]

Had two ideas in the last 10 minutes. Then I turned off the idea generator til after lunch.

1) Sliding scale for skill point spending
2) Separate NPC trainers per skill point blocks

read more below...



THE FORMULA

1 training point per skill point (base cost)
+ compound (10% of current skill points)
+/- racial modifier per skill category
+/- profession modifer per skill category
+ trainer cost (see below*)
- decimals in the sum (round down)
= final training point cost

AND MINIMUM training point cost = 1 point

AND restrict training to one point per input, meaning you have to type "train swimming" 3 times to get 3 points. This can eliminate the YES/NO confirmation and it is more consistent with the methods of GAINING experience whereby you have to do repetitive tasks.

PONDER THIS: Currently we cap the "total" amount of points you can have in a given skill based on your character's overall level and profession. I propose that we ALSO cap the amount of skill points you can learn PER overall level and profession. This way you are limited to learning ONLY 2 to 4 points in a given skill per level period. This small tweak would prevent the skill sharks from just deciding at 20th level of foraging to devote a ton of points to Spellcasting and suddenly, from Monday morning to Monday lunchtime they are Master Spellcasters. NO, instead, if they decide at level 20 to be a Spellcaster, they can only learn 2 points of spellcasting this level (or 4 points if they have racial or professional bonuses in this category). This would also go along way toward establishing your character and career paths (read: roleplaying opportunity here) early on so that those with high skills have been training them for a long time and those that discover a "new" career choice, start out as novices in the new skill, even if they are masters of another craft. (Granted, I understand the test system lets players taste new skills without having to DO the work, but I do hope this gets switched for live. Even for test... you could just GIVE all players like 500 skill points and say go dump some points into this new skill so that we can test it OR turn off the per level cap for a week so that any player can jump their skill to a higher level to test some new abilities.)

AND trainer cost increments = new NPC trainer per skill point block of study

*trainer cost: skill points 1 to 19 = +0 cost for an NPC instructor. Skill points 20 to 59 = +1 point for a new NPC Apprentice trainer. Skill points 60 to 99 = +2 points for a different, Advanced trainer NPC. Skill points 100 to 150 = +3 for Master trainer NPC. Skill points 150 to 199 = +4 for GrandMaster trainer NPC. Skill 200 up = +5 for an Enlightened Guru trainer.

Having multiple trainers per skill/stat RANK would provide more roleplaying opportunities/quests and just be damned cool. Besides, when did you learn ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING you needed to know about Tactics from ONE person? (Sorry Terevo, I like your handshake and your cash of course, but our relationship just isn't as exciting as it used to be. I've grown beyond what I can learn from you.)

------------------

SUMMARY

The examples below of average, accelerated, and penalized race and profession extremes shows that early skill point studies from skill points 1 to 50 are highly variable according to racial and professional modifiers. But after skill points of 100, everyone is burning a ton of points in order to advance a specific skill.

This system is purely for SPENDING your skill points. And does not take into account starting skill point levels based on race or profession, nor does it account for skill point accumulation per level/race/profession.

This formula for spending can be tweaked to be more complex such that trainer costs are increased at higher levels or the compound percentages scale at higher levels. Tweaking this spending may be irrelevant depending on the experience point/skill point gain methods.

THE ADVANTAGE of this system is that all players can gain a basic understanding of any skill that they want to spend points on. But players wishing to advance in a particular skill really have to devote points toward that skill, higher and higher with each bar. Making scholars/masters really work for their skill. And if we tweak the per level spending cap, it will give better career path variationand roleplaying opportunities to players.

------------------------

EXAMPLE ONE AVERAGE
(normal race and profession modifiers in THIS skill category)

Alden the Human Performer current has 2 skill points
in Bladed Weapons (Combat category), so we calculate the cost:

base cost (1)
current skill point compound (+10% current skill point level)
Racial modifier (Humans have 0 modifier in combat category)
Profession modifier (Performers have 0 modifier in combat category)
Trainer cost (0)
subtotal (1.2)
drop decimals (round down) for total (1)
=
1 training point per skill point between skill points 1 to 9
2 training point per skill point between skill points 10 to 19
Now Alden is capped with the current trainer and to get to 20 skill points, he needs to find a new trainer NPC which has an increased trainer cost. Once found, his cost is now...
4 training points per skill point between skill points 20 to 29
5 training points per skill point between skill points 30 to 39
6 training points per skill point between skill points 40 to 49
etc...
12 training points per skill point between skill points 90 to 99
etc...
22 training points per skill point between skill points 170 to 179

resulting in constant progression

--------------------------

EXAMPLE TWO BEST CASE
(positive race and profession modifiers in THIS skill category)

Bendo the Darju Trooper current has 2 skill points
in Bladed Weapons (Combat category), so we calculate the cost:

base cost (1)
current skill point compound (+10% current skill point level)
Racial modifier (Darju have -1 bonus for combat category)
Profession modifier (Troopers have -1 bonus for combat category)
Trainer cost (0)
subtotal (-1.2)
drop decimals (round down) for total (-1)
total < 1 = 1
=
1 training point per skill point between skill points 1 to 9
1 training point per skill point between skill points 10 to 19
Now Alden is capped with the current trainer and to get to 20 skill points, he needs to find a new trainer NPC which has an increased trainer cost. Once found, his cost is now...
2 training points per skill point between skill points 20 to 29
3 training points per skill point between skill points 30 to 39
4 training points per skill point between skill points 40 to 49
etc...
10 training points per skill point between skill points 90 to 99
etc...
20 training points per skill point between skill points 170 to 179

resulting in very benefitial early gains where the training cost is halved, but the benefit is reduced once the training cost reaches 10 points at skill level 90 and remains only a constant progression from there on

--------------------------

EXAMPLE THREE WORST CASE
(negative race and profession modifiers in THIS skill category)

Centril the Alteri Bureaucrat current has 2 skill points
in Bladed Weapons (Combat category), so we calculate the cost:

base cost (1)
current skill point compound (+10% current skill point level)
Racial modifier (Alteri have +1 in combat category)
Profession modifier (B'crats have +1 combat category)
Trainer cost (0)
subtotal (3.2)
drop decimals (round down) for total (3)
=
3 training point per skill point between skill points 1 to 9
4 training point per skill point between skill points 10 to 19
Now Alden is capped with the current trainer and to get to 20 skill points, he needs to find a new trainer NPC which has an increased trainer cost. Once found, his cost is now...
6 training points per skill point between skill points 20 to 29
7 training points per skill point between skill points 30 to 39
8 training points per skill point between skill points 40 to 49
etc...
14 training points per skill point between skill points 90 to 99
etc...
24 training points per skill point between skill points 170 to 179

resulting in early pentalties where the training cost is tripled, then penalty is slowly reduced as the training cost reaches 14 points at skill level 90 and then the penalty remains matters less and less as the progression continues

------------------------

[Enverdi]

Err...wow.
_________________
Why use logic when you can just...make stuff up?

[soundless]

i don't like the sliding scale idea just because the old and new experience systems don't seem to compensate for it.

it's a nice concept, though, and i do think trevor eventually intends to make a sliding scale thing, just not for beta (i think, right?).
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.

[the blue fairy]

I wish my brain farts were that well formed, its usually ummmm uhhhhh duuuuh damn.
_________________
Mellie Amresh says, "Send someone with a bigger dick."

A set of breast implants fall from the sky with a soft plop.

Caretaker Jornnoj Vunn looks up at the sky.

A passing guard suddenly shits himself.

[Orodreth]

After having let the brain fart gases dissapate, I can look back clearly and see that:

1) I didnt account for current scaling EXP EARNING to basically be doing the scaling for me.

2) I just really want multiple NPCs to learn from... Terevo can't teach me how to intimidate as well as a jaddan... and I don't care HOW long its been since Terevo showered.

3) The quick fix to people's gripes is to put the stat/skill training cap per level in place... to prevent the SKILL SHARKS (unless they reallocate).

3.1) the spending cap shouldnt matter for beginners IF they are already starting out at say 12 or 20 points in a given primary skill.

3.2) spending caps require that you put more thought into your character long term, meaning that ... you are putting more thought into your character... longer term... hopefully making the character more important and easier to roleplay since you can no longer be a Jack(or Jane) of ALL Trades at Expert level. Ask any artist or actor, the more limitations and boundaries you apply around a character, the more focused you can be on playing that character and making them stand out of the crowd. I love the fact there there are a limited number of experts in certain fields. It will make all players/professions rely on each other and make us feel more attached to our own characters and we can feel like we're actually achieving something. And it can give more credibility to the professional lockouts in certain areas since they ARE now the experts and learn faster at certain skills.

Now to figure out what kind of food generates the best brain farts...

[SolitaryTurnip]

I think I remember reading that there would be a sliding scale-type-thing in Live, maybe. I could search for it, but it's at least 8 months old and might not even apply. I can't remember (or never knew) if the skill changes will work like that if you work for experience. I know that, ya know, asapi won't teach you anything if you have 300 bladed, but I don't know if asapi at level 1 will teach you faster than guards at level (appropriate level for guards, I guess).

I like the idea though, for what it's worth. I think that if the work necessary for exp gain is increased with skill in the same manner that NPC training increases with skill, it'd be a pretty neat system.

[HR-Trevor]

Live will incorporate a sliding scale, yep.
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy