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The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Crafting & Trades » Weaving
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Josie
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Joined: 14 Jan 2003
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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:45 pm    Post subject: Weaving
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First of... kudos for the weaving, it seems like it'll be a great thing to do.

My only problem with it is this...

1. Yes the sign said Artisan Weaving 101... but it didnt specifically say that the looms and weaving were for artisans only, so alot of people myself included bought the looms and skeins and thread to make fabrics. If your going to keep this artisan only it needs to have a big red sign that says, dont buy if your not artisan because we spent alot of money that is basically useless now unless we want to beg mellie or yaru to do it for us which leads to my next one...

2. Being a tracker i have naturally a triple training in tailoring, meaning at my level i can have the max of 200 in tailoring not including bonuses.
So why should I as a tracker not know how to figure out how to work a loom?

Yaru has argued that if I want weaving then why shouldnt he get to be able to skin exceptionally... well artisans cant triple train skinning where i can triple tailoring. And even at that...anyone can get exceptional skins, not just trackers.

He also stated that he should be able to snipe then... that is tracker only granted, but tattooing is artisan only and thats fine with me, no complaints.

He also stated that thats like saying Merc weaponds aren't just for mercs, well there was a "MERC ONLY" Room with whatever they had in there. The stuff that everyone could buy yes was geared towards mercs but anyone can use them.

He also stated i should have bought the 500$ loom and 1 thing of thread to test it... but as most of us know alot of places sell bonused items and the more expensive the more of a chance for it to be bonused (which was true in this case) so yah i bought the most expensive and alot of thread and skeins because i wanted to be able to store them and continue to use them after the fest is over.

He then stated it was the "Artisans world renowned secret"... well if that were the case, it would have been in its only artisan only room.

I dont think i should have to swallow my pride and ask someone to do something for me that I am actually better at than they are... i guess thats my frustration out of all of this. There are offer's to skein the sheets for "cheaper" than normal but if i have more tailoring than that why should i have to pay someone else to do it?


And if you consider my thread just me being a "ranting ass" then i apologize to anyone who thinks that i am ranting. I am not ranting but giving my feelings about this and dont think that i should be called a "ranting ass" because of that.

~Josie
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Brokyn
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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:01 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
He then stated it was the "Artisans world renowned secret"... well if that were the case, it would have been in its only artisan only room.


Haha, good job at taking his joke aimed at disarming the situation seriously.

--William
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Weaving
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Josie Laurens wrote:
1. Yes the sign said Artisan Weaving 101... but it didnt specifically say that the looms and weaving were for artisans only.


i can see that being a logical request. i like the idea of the tent being open to all, though, because i would want everyone to buy what skeins they want. but yes, an artisan only warning about the skeins would be cool. i still stand by the fact that buying that many materials at once was silly, though. even if you bought the most expensive loom and the most expensive fabric, you'd only be down $50,450.

Quote:
unless we want to beg mellie or yaru to do it for us which leads to my next one...


that's like saying i have to beg a tech for a chip repair/installation. and there are more tailors now, anyway.

Quote:
Being a tracker i have naturally a triple training in tailoring, meaning at my level i can have the max of 200 in tailoring not including bonuses.


because triple training as a dead arguement that doesn't count anymore since triple training will be gone soon enough.

Quote:
So why should I as a tracker not know how to figure out how to work a loom?


the same reason i can't make a cache.

Quote:
I dont think i should have to swallow my pride and ask someone to do something for me that I am actually better at than they are... i guess thats my frustration out of all of this.


because more skill doesn't mean complete mastery. i'm sorry you feel you should be able to use this system, but weaving is an artisan boon. trackers are better than the common joe when it comes to tailoring, but they are not the masters of it. i'm sure if harvesting silk ever comes along, then trackers may very well be the masters of that, since it directly involves nature.
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Weaving
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Okay, I don't intend to weave, have no interest in it and I'm well aware several of you will label this post as pointing out stupid, trite things, and Mickey will get upset and say things like fests are bad and stuff....but here it goes. If I don't speak up then I don't feel right with myself. I mean all of this in the best way possible.

I am disappointed with the Darju fest because the only thing Darju about it is one flavored oil, a bunch of girl clothes, a low back labcoat, and the games. There's nothing culturally Darju about this fest. All the new interesting things are for Artisans-only, and honestly, they shouldn't have been brought out at a Darju Zuzleme festival. Why would Darju who are celebrating a mating season have some of these tents?

Yes, I was annoyed that there were no weapons offered. Yes, as always, I'm annoyed that people forget to put out a tent of men's clothing (and don't say the armor. It's armor. Kit has holotek armor already). Do you guys think we don't wear clothes or something? Yes, I'm annoyed that the cool new thing is AGAIN an artisan thing and this time not even trackers can use it.

Do I think weaving should be open to everyone? Yes. Why?

Because I am not an artisan IRL. But I have a loom in the corner of my room and I've made scarves with it since I was about ten. My latest attempt was last year to replace my Slytherin scarf when my dog ate it. I, just an ordinary college graduate, can work a loom. Therefore, a tech sound too. And DEFINATELY a tracker should. Weaving one's own fabric is something a tracker would do rather then come to town and buy it.

Hand looms were used by native peoples that were hunters and gatherers...like trackers are. Sure, artisans can make the pricey silks and all that, but basic weaving is an everyone type thing.

So, to sum up, I think this fest was mislabeled. A Darju fest should have Darju things. And weaving should be for everyone.
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Josie
Everyone wants to be me!


Joined: 14 Jan 2003
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Location: Where the hell am i?

 Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:25 pm    Post subject:
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When the new skill comes out, i will still have more tailoring than you will so your arguement about the triple training is moot your right.

Tracker's arent the only ones that can make caches, agents can too. The only difference between an artisan and a tracker tailoring is that you can make em bigger than I can. Other than that tailoring isn't just "Artisan" so i dont see why my being able to make a cache is a big deal. Ya'll have tattooing, capability of making bigger backpacks etc just like i have the ability to cover my tracks. Thats part of our profession. All I'm saying is that if i can train my tailoring just as well as you can so why shouldn't i be able to figure out a loom?

I didn't say that I wanted to be better than you at weaving but since tailoring is part of my profession too i think that i still should be able to weave

And once again your bringing up what i spent which i asked you not to, so again i ask that you stop.

~Josie
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You forcefully swing your fluffy pillow at Trevor Rage and hit him on the rear sending feathers flying everywhere!
Your swing knocked Trevor Rage down!
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TheTrackerChick
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Joined: 15 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:35 pm    Post subject:
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I must admit I was slightly surprised that everyone couldn't learn how to use a loom also. I'm sure whoever made the cool weaving thought about it and decided that it should be artisan only. So hat's off to whomever made it possible IG, I'm just sorry I'll never get a chance to know how truly cool and fun it is.
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soundless
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Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:38 pm    Post subject:
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i'm going to take the time to point out that this is the first day of the festival, that more merchants may (or may not) come, and quite frankly already one GM has little desire to do anything.

i'll also leave this thread to rest, because:

1) the tattoos could have be GMNPC-given only, but instead they were given to artisans, so more people could get them.

2) valla told us we were getting the ability to make fabrics as an artisan thing forever ago. instead of just releasing it in a town, she put it in the festival as a preview before setting the tent up elsewhere as a shop in whatever town it'll go in.

honestly, guys, i'm not sure what you want the GMs to say here.
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Tugor
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Joined: 18 Oct 2003
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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:42 pm    Post subject:
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Kit wrote:
Do I think weaving should be open to everyone? Yes. Why?

Because I am not an artisan IRL. But I have a loom in the corner of my room and I've made scarves with it since I was about ten.


I hate that argument. This isn't RL. Just because something doesn't make sense doesn't mean it can't be possible\impossible. For the sake of gameplay, there are going to be systems that aren't going to be available to everyone regardless of how much sense it does or does not make. It's up to the profession Gurus to decide.

My opinion - I don't care about weaving or tailoring or whatever, those types of things in game usually don't interest me. But offhand I can think of numerous systems that are available to ALL and not just Artisans. So they get another system just for them, big deal? All professions have perks, and are continuing to get perks as well. I think the main reason most get pissy about it is because it's NEW, something different. There are a plethora of other systems available but because weaving is NEW, people are going to bitch because they can't do it. Get over it.
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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:45 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
Do I think weaving should be open to everyone? Yes. Why?

Because I am not an artisan IRL. But I have a loom in the corner of my room and I've made scarves with it since I was about ten


i played nintendo when i was in second grade. i demand to be able to make gadgets.

i made a commodore 64 program when i was in fourth grade. i demand to be able to program and use broker computers.

today i fixed my remote control. no, really, why can't i own a MAD.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:50 pm    Post subject:
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And let's not forget that Trackers get to hunt a lot more easily than Artisans. While not that great of an argument, you can easily say that the looming process is just another means to equilize the equation.

--William
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:04 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
i played nintendo when i was in second grade. i demand to be able to make gadgets..


Pleaying video games doesn't equal putting things together. You should have said:

"I put together a toaster" or "I played with an erector set"

Be consistant!


And godammit, I'm good at weaving scarves. Yes, it's different then weaving 300 count sheets. Why? Because I'm not a professional. The point of my post (which you and William always miss) is that I said that weaving should be openning to everyone. Weaving really well would be an artisan thing. And it shouldn't be based from a tailoring skill...but a weaving skill. I can sew MUCH better then I can weave.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:07 am    Post subject:
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Yeah, I didn't reply to your post. So I respectfully request you retract your statement that I missed your point.

--William
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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:12 am    Post subject:
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Kit wrote:
Weaving really well would be an artisan thing. And it shouldn't be based from a tailoring skill...but a weaving skill. I can sew MUCH better then I can weave.


Tailoring = weaving, sewing, etc.

That's how I see it. Otherwise we would have a bajillion other sub-skills in addition to all the current ones.

EXAMPLE: Kits repair and electronics, he doesn't specialize in any ONE field of repair or electronics, he can fix everything electrical. Not just comms, but medical equipment and cyberware and organizers and droids.
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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:15 am    Post subject:
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Kit wrote:
Because I'm not a professional. The point of my post (which you and William always miss) is that I said that weaving should be openning to everyone. Weaving really well would be an artisan thing. And it shouldn't be based from a tailoring skill...but a weaving skill. I can sew MUCH better then I can weave.


weaving isn't just tailoring.

it's tailoring, craftsmanship, coordination, perception, and i'd assume mentality as well (those three stats being the cornerstones of most creation systems).
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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:39 am    Post subject:
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This thread is silly. Some things are restricted to professions. The end. Stop talking about it. It doesn't have to make sense; it's a game. What's so special about some spells/psionic powers that makes them only available to mages/psionics? I bet I could study hard and learn them. What's so special about the medic equipment stuff that I don't know the name of? Cardiostimulatrator or something. I bet I could read a manual and figure one out. Why are some weapons only for mercenaries? I think if I wore brass knuckles I would do more unarmed damage, regardless of who I am. Just because you think you could do something that's restricted to other professions doesn't mean you get to do it. See, because if that happened, then everybody would make plausible arguments for why every new system should be for everybody and then there would be nothing to separate professions. And don't go through and dissect my post; that's petty, and I'm tired of petty.

Bottom line: Sometimes new things come out and you can't do them and that's all there is to it.
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