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Brokering and Stuff...
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Kelasa



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 363

 Post Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:32 pm    Post subject: Brokering and Stuff...
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Now I know this seems like a dead issue at this point, but this change with brokering has literally made it so I don't even want to play anymore, much less pay to play.

Before the benefits for using a broker were as follows:

1- The price of what you are selling doesn't drop after the sell is completed.
2- Everything was sold for the same cost at the time of sale.
3- Everything was sold at one time in the container desired.

Now the only benefit of using a broker to sell is #3. The price goes down if a broker sells. The price goes down as a broker sells. What is the point behind having a brokerage ability then?

I do understand that things had to be done about the massive income from foraging, I also feel something should be done about the 'pet' crats. It had been said in the past that the level required in order to use the brokerage skill was going to be raised, why not do this instead of cutting the benefits of using a broker? Other methods were added to cut the profit from foraging, but by limiting the benefit of a broker it reduces the profit from hunting as well, not just foraging.

I will admit that I believe the market should be random, and after the first week or so of playing a bureaucrat (and I'm probably one of the, if not the, longest played bureaucrat in the game) have tried to express that everyone has a right to sell as they wish. Causing the market itself to be completely random is a very good idea, and much better then cutting the before planned benefits of playing a bureaucrat. Any time I have logged in since the changes to check of the new 'randomality' of the ticker all I see are the results of anyone selling.

Something that might be nice when the market does become random would be for broker or execuative organizers to make computerized announcements to those in a room with a 'crat which broadcast about crashes and peaks, pretty much so that if someone checked the ticker before selling and the market suddenly crashed they wouldn't be caught off guard. There could even be an option for voice on/off for the organizers.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 3648
Location: Northern Georgia

 Post Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:06 pm    Post subject:
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I'm going to hold off on commenting on the majority of your post, if only because you seem to be the only one complaining about the issue. And I don't mean for that to sound as spiteful as it does, it's just that noone else is really voicing any negative opinions toward the change but you.

Your main point has always seemed to be that the Brokering ability has changed from its initial idea. I don't see why that's such a big deal, since things tend to evolve and otherwise change over time... especially in a testing phase such as this. The initial conception of the Broker ability was too overpowering; it almost always made sure basic components sold for 10$/unit (give or take, counting for those that don't use third-parties to sell their items) if it was unrefined.

So it was changed. Now people have to -- OHMYGOD -- actually think before they broadcasted the generic "Are there any brokers awake?" message. Now people have to hold on to items that are selling for low prices and wait for them to get to a tolerable level. Granted, you have a point that it sucks that prices go down as the Broker sells items, but doesn't that make sense? If you give someone gold, their demand for it goes down, which then directly affects the amount they're willing to pay for it later. Economics 101, something your class is supposed to excel at.

But this is not the time or place to go into all of that, because it's been hashed and rehashed in other places.

I think the majority of your angst stems from other professions getting neat stuff and yours seemingly getting nothing. Well, you have to understand that not everything is coded at the moment. We're still without a full law system, not to mention a jailing/justice system. You're going to be in charge of housing permits when that system is released, and I believe marriage licenses, too. You can get upwards of 10,000$ a day just for logging in for two seconds. You're probably going to be fences for the Agents when they get their pimped out burglery and shoplifting stuff. I think it was mentioned that you're also going to be able to not only open up shops, but also distribute building permits for other people (I could be wrong on the latter part). You do get a bonus to selling/pawning items.

I'm sure that there are others that could be listed, but the point is that you have a lot that's going to be dropped on your plate in due time. You have to understand that everything is NOT going to be available in this limited test phase. And I think your attempt at shock value -- "I don't even want to play anymore" -- was really unneeded; just state your points without trying to guilt people into changing the game for you.

--William
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Tylen
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Brokering and Stuff...
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Kelasa wrote:
Now I know this seems like a dead issue at this point, but this change with brokering has literally made it so I don't even want to play anymore, much less pay to play.

Before the benefits for using a broker were as follows:

1- The price of what you are selling doesn't drop after the sell is completed.
2- Everything was sold for the same cost at the time of sale.
3- Everything was sold at one time in the container desired.

Now the only benefit of using a broker to sell is #3. The price goes down if a broker sells. The price goes down as a broker sells. What is the point behind having a brokerage ability then?


You forgot to add in: #4 The price of what you are selling drops less than if a non-Bureaucrat were to sell it.

Not that I'm trying to defend the change. If it makes you not want to play, I'd say just be like me and don't broker for the public.
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Tylen
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:39 pm    Post subject:
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Brokyn wrote:
But this is not the time or place to go into all of that, because it's been hashed and rehashed in other places.


Sorry, you're in the Bureaucrat forum which is the place (and there's no time like the present). If you don't want to read about it, then just move along.
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:58 pm    Post subject:
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75% of players have used a broker to sell things since this change went in. I imagine this might certainly be lower than before, but I personally feel that is quite a large sum of people.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:41 am    Post subject:
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I know I get a few thousand extra $$$'s from Belethe.

This is both because she is a broker and she is properly trained (ie: Charisma like woah) to do so. This keeps me from having to go charisma-crazy, myself.
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Kelasa



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 363

 Post Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Brokering and Stuff...
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[quote="Tylen] You forgot to add in: #4 The price of what you are selling drops less than if a non-Bureaucrat were to sell it.

Not that I'm trying to defend the change. If it makes you not want to play, I'd say just be like me and don't broker for the public.[/quote]

I did say before. Not currently. And if doesn't matter to me if it drops less, by the time a person uses a broker, they usually sell as much stuff that it would drop the same amount.

Also I have pretty much stopped selling completely except for one person.

And William- This change has made it so I really have no desire to play. As I have pointed out before on other boards the abilities granted to a bureaucrat state specifically: Commodities trading has no negative affect on global commodity value. As I had said earlier in this post yes things needed to change. Thing had changed once when Trevor messed with the alchemy system and refined products are only worth on average 10-30% more then the base product. The fact that potions dropped upset me but they weren't originally a commodity type item either so that doesn't bug me. But the commodities dropping at all when a bureaucrat sells bugs me. The price decending as a bureaucrat is selling bugs me a LOT. Yes the difference is less then when a none bureaucrat was selling them, but one of the big benifits before was that a person could sell all their potions they saved up at top price, but then it would have dropped before the next person sold.

Trevor- I have tried to post reasonably, I have tried to post logically but I have the feeling that the main concern in my post was just brushed off completely. I have tried to not only post the complaints, but to post of other methods availible to fix it. A percentage of how many people use my bureaucrat doesn't help. How many of those bureaucrats are pets? How many people actually have played a bureaucrat as a full time profession? I can think of 3 that were not originally started as pets: Kelasa, Aesal, Belethe.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Brokering and Stuff...
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Kelasa wrote:
Also I have pretty much stopped selling completely except for one person.

And William- This change has made it so I really have no desire to play.


You're telling me that the ability to sell commods all at once without impacting the market was the sole reason you became a Bureaucrat?

You DO know you can sell non commods better than anyone else still, right? You DO know you can do weddings. You DO know that you're the best lawyers. You can still do quite a lot even though your stuff impacts the stock market now.
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Tylen
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: Brokering and Stuff...
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soundless wrote:
You're telling me that the ability to sell commods all at once without impacting the market was the sole reason you became a Bureaucrat?


Nope, it doesn't look like she was talking to you.

soundless wrote:
You DO know you can sell non commods better than anyone else still, right? You DO know you can do weddings. You DO know that you're the best lawyers. You can still do quite a lot even though your stuff impacts the stock market now.


The problem is that one of the advertised perks for Bureaucrats was changed. I know they're not set in stone. Or maybe they are... it still hasn't been updated on the website.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 3648
Location: Northern Georgia

 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:51 am    Post subject:
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So you're going to get anal about the information on the website when there are more important things taking up Trevor's -- and a number of other staff members' -- time?

And, echoing Yaru, I find it sort of sad that she's contemplating quitting just because this change was made to commods. You still have a number of your perks in tact. I understand that it's upsetting to have even one thing change after you've gotten used to it, but you just have to adapt and make the best of it.

The argument that selling commods = crap.. is really invalid. The market now fluctuates randomly. While the price of something might drop after a BROKER, it will probably rise again in a few hours (or a day? I haven't studied the ticker to figure out the timer). It's a lot more realistic like this. You also have to keep in mind that there are probably going to be a number of things coming your away after the new experience system is implemented.

--William
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Brokering and Stuff...
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Tylen wrote:
Nope, it doesn't look like she was talking to you.


If it's on the boards, she's talking to me. She's talking to everyone, really.
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Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Brokering and Stuff...
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Kelasa wrote:
Now the only benefit of using a broker to sell is #3. The price goes down if a broker sells. The price goes down as a broker sells. What is the point behind having a brokerage ability then?


That's why I sell stuff all at once...that's not right anymore? If a broker, I don't get the same price for each item?

Kelasa wrote:
Other methods were added to cut the profit from foraging, but by limiting the benefit of a broker it reduces the profit from hunting as well, not just foraging.


I wish this wasn't the case....I hate foraging...but there is no other way to get better money...the stuff I can hunt doesn't pay well at all.

Kelasa wrote:
I will admit that I believe the market should be random, and after the first week or so of playing a bureaucrat (and I'm probably one of the, if not the, longest played bureaucrat in the game) have tried to express that everyone has a right to sell as they wish.


I like this idea. Sometimes emeralds are highly prized...sometimes they aren't. Suppose that there haven't been any emerald flooded into the market in weeks...well, the price goes up much higher then the highest level already. It would make it more fun to get stuff.

Kelasa wrote:
Something that might be nice when the market does become random would be for broker or execuative organizers to make computerized announcements to those in a room with a 'crat which broadcast about crashes and peaks, pretty much so that if someone checked the ticker before selling and the market suddenly crashed they wouldn't be caught off guard. There could even be an option for voice on/off for the organizers.


I really like this idea.
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:26 am    Post subject:
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Tylen wrote:
Brokyn wrote:
But this is not the time or place to go into all of that, because it's been hashed and rehashed in other places.


Sorry, you're in the Bureaucrat forum which is the place (and there's no time like the present). If you don't want to read about it, then just move along.



I agree. William tends to like to put people down. And I think everyone has the right to voice their opinions, even if William doesn't like those opinions.
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:28 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
I know I get a few thousand extra $$$'s from Belethe.

This is both because she is a broker and she is properly trained (ie: Charisma like woah) to do so. This keeps me from having to go charisma-crazy, myself.



I know what you mean. I always wait for Eka to come in. She's nice and kind and gets me a few thousand on the return.
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Brokering and Stuff...
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[quote="soundless"]
Kelasa wrote:
You DO know that you're the best lawyers. You can still do quite a lot even though your stuff impacts the stock market now.



When the justice system comes out, there can trails of the century for muderers and stuff....that would be excellent....and fun to rp
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