Combat Feedback

[HR-Trevor]

Heh, the scouts have 50 strength. Beetles have 20.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

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[SolitaryTurnip]

[HR-Trevor]

Stats are unique to the creature and not level based. What is level based, however, is the total stat points they can have across all stats. Something strength heavy, for example, is lacking elsewhere.

Creature stats are essentially based on what an equivalent human player might have for that level but the actual allocation of points is based on the type of creature and its characteristics.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[Dzynna]

I appreciate the tweaking that was applied to archery in the recent past, but after doing some testing with Daedalus and Inaira on the sparring grounds, I think combat is still somewhat skewed in favor of unarmed.

I know that combat learning is still skewed in favor of unarmed. I can hunt at level for 30 minutes with a bow and not learn anything unless I skin/pick boxes. I can hunt for 30 minutes with unarmed, not skin and stow all my boxes and walk away with a full mind.

I personally don't use marksmanship, but was told that it has some of the same issues that archery has.

I think the various attacks should grant the same amount of experience (based on base RT), and I fail to see how 4 punches to the head can do more damage than a shotgun blast or a crossbow bolt to the same location.

I'm not trying to whine, just attempting give feedback on the various combat systems that I am familiar with, which is archery and unarmed. Riwa uses pulse, but isn't very proficient at it (she is, after all, a Medic), so I can't really comment on that.

Thank you for reading.
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Dzynna Zol
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The Retreat
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[Xenoapollyon]

[zamde]

Just a couple things:

- A gunshot to the head: 1 second of roundtime.
- Four punches to the head: Roundtime for four different punches -- each more than 1 second. Have you compared the four punches to a like number of gunshots (which would be a more fair assessment)? Four shotgun hits to the head is nothing to sneeze at, for four seconds total RT. Furthermore, what type of punch are we talking about? PUNCH? SPEARHAND? PUMMEL?
- Default engagement starts at ranged. Unless you're a member of the Fantastic Four, you aren't throwing ranged-weapon punches.
- This is going to come off like a Tracker dis, so I want to assure you ahead of time that it isn't; but, there's no argument against necessity being the mother of invention. I can understand that some characters (or players) may have a cultural or professional inclination toward archery (like Trackers), but the thing is -- if a bow and arrow was the pinnacle of fired-projectile technology, sentient man as a warmongering species would never have bothered inventing the gun. I don't care what happens in fantasy movies, it doesn't make sense to just pack extra power into each and every weapon in the game so that x == y == z, or so that it ubers the weapon you prefer to use.

I think some people haven't been on the receiving end of the assault rifle fire.
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Llanfair Anti-Cyber Brigade Member #0000

[Tugor]

Heh I've been on the end of the rifle fire. Honestly, with the random damage factor, the damage you deal to someone is based on luck heh. In my experiences, skill = the ability to land a hit and really no more, you can fully aim and land a weak hit or snap shot when they are stunned and land a critical hit, it's random, and I've witnissed it on countless occasions.

The only thing I hate about ranged attacks(minus throwing weapons) is that you can't hit shit without fully aiming. Someone with 100 less in evasion than you have in your weapon will dodge 100% of the time when doing snap shots and even aiming for just the RT isn't enough. Tshar has like 250 pulse 150 coordination, 110 perception, 120 mentality and people with less evasion and all around defense stats still dodge his fully aimed shots. It's not just archery, though archery does get the short end of the stick of all the ranged weapons, not because they aren't as powerful but because they are innacurate as hell. And if archery isn't even usable, why even have it as a trainable weapon skill?
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It is better to be pissed off than pissed on.

[TheTrackerChick]

I echo the previous statements. I do love unarmed because it seems almost fail safe. At least pummel does.

I've never really understood why a tracker is so good at unarmed. I rarely ever miss, and just takes one pummel to kill. Though marks does well for me also, I at least don't have to worry about jams, or loading it, or the critter being good at dodging bullets. It's always seemed to me that every critter is susceptible to unarmed compared to archery, or marks.

To be honest however, I don't hunt as much as some do, nor have I hunted every single type of critter trying all three offenses. But from my experience hunting, that's just what I've seen so far. I never use archery, though I'm trained to and would love to. I suppose for RP purposes I should, but I prefer killing quick. My unarmed isn't that fast, but it's more accurate, and I just happen to like accuracy over speed.

p.s even though my unarmed isn't as fast, I do kill quicker. That's why I say accuracy over speed.
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All explorers are seeking something they have lost. It is seldom they find it, and more seldom still that the attainment brings them greater happiness than the quest.

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i've yet to have an issue killing with good old faceshooter.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.

[Dzynna]

[Xenoapollyon]

I'm going to appologize in advange if this sounds like a whine, it isnt intended to. This is simply a series of examples to show the reality of the damage that weapons do.

Marksmanship: I was on teh recieving end of a high power rifle as a child. The damage that a single round can do, even hitting a minor part of the body, is beyone impressive. 48 operations, year and a half before walking was a real option.

Archery: (bow) I will agree that archery type weapons arent the highlight of projectile weaponry, but none the less extremely effective. Even in the golden age of body armor (pre firearm) a trained archer within fairly close range could put a arrow through plate armor and drop a knight from a horse with (relative) ease, compared to someone trying to hit them with a sword.

Archery: (crossbow) I cant remember the exact location of the record, but I read from a personal account that was written way back in the day about a crossbow. "Sir Someone was pinned to a tree, throgh his shield and armor by a crossbow quarrel" In my mind at the very least, somethign with the energy needed to penetrate a metal or wooden shield, plate armor, a person, the other side of the plate armor, and have enough force to lodge in a tree well enough that a grown man is stuck, is substancial.

Since unarmed was the primary example used in the posts by zamde and Inaira, I will use that as my promary example here as well.

Unarmed: There are people and methods for delivering extremely lethal blows at very high speeds using only the body as a weapon. I dont think that a punch, regardless of skill impacting a (human) chest through a heavy metal armor, would have the possibility to completely destroy the body part. Terminator excluded.

The previous was simply for comparitave damage estimates.

I dont feel that The posting on the part of myself or Dzynna had anythign to do with the Tracker profession, or the desire to have our personal weapon choice pumped till we could carry a walking trevor backhand. From what I took from the posts it was simply a little feedback on the part of experience gain and general weapon damage with teh hope that it might be looked into by someone who has the ability to do so.


As far as the experience gain, I do recognize that a pummel is four attacks, and a shot with a rifle or bow is one, ignoring the multi shot types. Using poudrach and really light blades, Pummel is 4 seconds, and double slash (4 attacks) is 6 seconds. Firing my rifle 4 times is 4 seconds also. It probably averages higher when you take into account load times. But to stay on topic, experience. The rate of experience gain (filling my mind) using unarmed or bladed is extremely fast, even though, attack vs. roundtime speed is roughly the same in the long run. individual attacks are faster for marksmanship but in the same amount of time, the same number of attempted hits exist. Using melee, the mind fills extremely fast, using a gun, its ungodly slow. if it isnt a skinnable creature I wont even start hunting till my mind if full because it takes so long to get enough in there. I can burn off 200 rounds and still not be full, 50 pummels is another story.

I'm not sure of the exact roundtimes for archery weapons though, I dont use them.

I hope nobody took that as a personal attack or my being rude, as that was not the intention.

[Tugor]

It's quite possible that unarmed attacks are too powerful.
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It is better to be pissed off than pissed on.

[Dzynna]

[Daedalus]

Okay, here is my input on this all. Below I’ll list a couple of cases involving people well above my skill and level...

Fist case, my battle with Jade in the Rav.

Out of bladed weapons, marksman, and unarmed, I was only able to hit her with unarmed which lead to an under fifteen second kill.

Second case, Inaira kicking my ass in the Rav.

She shot two fully aimed shots at me. One from ranged, the other from about mid-engagement. Both shots missed. Yet, one eight second or less pummel took me out quite easily. She informed me that both marksmanship and unarmed were in the 200+ range, but her unarmed being lower than her marksmanship. How bullets are easier to dodge than fists, I don’t know.

Third case, Sean not being able to hit me with a fully aimed shot from a rifle. Don’t remember if it was ranged or melee. But still, his skills are much higher than mine.

Now, with a little bit of testing on guards ... I can usually kill a guard with 1-2 eight second pummels or one bodyslam and a pummel. My shotgun on the other hand, has an eight second full aim time (Because I can't hit them with out aiming or knocking them down), and a one second shot. Not to mention the loading (Six seconds), jamming, and the chance of getting a superficial hit with a fully aimed shot.

However, using my gun fills my mind faster than using unarmed.
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