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combat inconsistancies
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Warner
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Joined: 18 Sep 2004
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Location: The Armpit of the Universe

 Post Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:46 am    Post subject: combat inconsistancies
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Being the combat nut i am, ive come to see a few things which could use tweaking in regards to the new changes.
I understand that it's been hashed out in reponses to announcements,
however this is not a rant, this is my attempt at a objective disection of combat now.

The randomness which has been added to combat is relevant to an extent
no one should be sitting with swarms of foes their level and escape unhurt.
realistically anyways.Balance for the game also points in this direction.

with that little disclaimer out of the way: on to the point of this


1:Burden,during many hunting trips ive been leaving the area with burden and under normal circumestances that is a dangerous thing to do
but i underhunt most of the time so i dont get hit burdened unless it's extreme burden.
So while running around with this added weight you'd think im more of a easier target then standing in a room with one creature and no burden.
Realistically and game balancewise.This is not the case
I've been hit more standing there trying to pick a box or prepping a spell.
Barring things like fatigue and health loss (very cool concept of npc damage will be brought up shortly) standing there performing a non-combat orientated task like picking boxes shouldnt be opted into the "idle hit modifier" for lack of a better term. total inactiveness should lead to wounds because of nskill defense gains agreed, picking boxes to see whats in them or spell prepping or doing anything besides idling should not.


2:balance seems to be a bit one sided when it comes to player balance recovery/loss vs creature recovery loss. if i get swept in the swamps
i can count on poor balance for at least twenty seconds. in ANY situation where i've dazed/dropped/swept a creature they seem to pop back up with insta balance. Maybe a little adjustment could be done to reflect
realism and game balance.(it's not anymore fair to the players if npcs get uber balance and we have a slower recovery) I understand stats help as far as recovery and so does the equilibrium trait, but something seems stuck in the mist when considering the realism this change has put on the players without a mirrored adjustment percievable to anyone without the "immortal/wizard" status.

3:Wounds, very cool idea making critters and players combat efficientcy
affected by injury! ( i like this even though it's a double edged sword) however beyond leg damage i havent been able to tell a differance in a creature's combat abilities with a mangled arm or a scuffed arm.

4:weapon disarming, any player who's hands are destroyed usually drop the item in that hand, i've yet to see a creature drop a weapon. This was a
concept of disarming a creature posted By Trevor with the effective note at the end being Don't count on a creature to stay long after being disarmed (or something close to that effect)
I'd find it most interresting to see what the gear a guard is equipped with does for me as opposed to storebought. (example)


some of the major points that bug me about a past time i otherwise love doing.I'd be willing to discuss possibe solutions to the system lag caused by idle players in monster gen areas Trevor my aim sn is E sorrows HR
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SolitaryTurnip



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:04 pm    Post subject:
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Warner wrote:
1:Burden,during many hunting trips ive been leaving the area with burden and under normal circumestances that is a dangerous thing to do
but i underhunt most of the time so i dont get hit burdened unless it's extreme burden.
So while running around with this added weight you'd think im more of a easier target then standing in a room with one creature and no burden.
Realistically and game balancewise.This is not the case
I've been hit more standing there trying to pick a box or prepping a spell.
Barring things like fatigue and health loss (very cool concept of npc damage will be brought up shortly) standing there performing a non-combat orientated task like picking boxes shouldnt be opted into the "idle hit modifier" for lack of a better term. total inactiveness should lead to wounds because of nskill defense gains agreed, picking boxes to see whats in them or spell prepping or doing anything besides idling should not.


I guess I don't understand here... burden does play a huge factor into combat... it may just be because you're underhunting. But I've noticed, if I decide to hunt somewhere where there's danger (rare *grins*), no burden and slight burdern can make a huge difference.

Warner wrote:
in ANY situation where i've dazed/dropped/swept a creature they seem to pop back up with insta balance.


How do you check a critter's balance?
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:05 am    Post subject:
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I see a lot of statements based on theory and assumptions, like how encumbrance affects you, how balance is handled, how much injury affects critters, etc.

Let me state for the record that all the matters you brought up except encumbrance are handled identically between players and creatures. Creatures have the same balance limits and chance to lose/gain balance, for example.

Encumbrance is a sliding scale penalty, but believe me, it all adds up, it's just not glaringly obvious. How obvious is a 10% higher chance to get hit anyway, with so many other factors that could add as much or more? However, get really encumbered and you'll probably be dead rather quickly.

As to disarming, there's not any plans at the moment, but it's not out of the question.
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Warner
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Joined: 18 Sep 2004
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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:09 am    Post subject:
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Thank you for clarifying some issues Trevor,
the one issue i wasnt clear on before the most was burden.
in the swamps this morning while under the influence of a potion of agility i was dodging borkins with fairly encumbered by your burden
I'm not saying it shount be a factor im saying it should be a bit more obvious especially with a scenerio like that.
What i'm saying is how can a creature hit me while standing with no burden hit me while picking a box or during prepping a spell, and not hit me when it's far above my level with the encumberence (realistically speaking and keeping game balance)
My stats are:


Agility : 31 (32)
Charisma : 10
Coordination : 28 (40)
Intellect : 3
Mentality : 4
Perception : 13 (19)
Strength : 17
Vitality : 7

Evasion : 33 (35)

Agility becomes 52 with the potion and 54 with precognition
vs Borkin Warrior stats/skills +burden+injury=should be dead fast

my stats/skills with boosts vs borkin Settlers and Encumbrance: You are not encumbered.
i get hit while picking a box


Most command ever used: exp
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:35 am    Post subject:
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Aren't borkin warriors around level 19?

19 * 2.7 = 51 skill

you have only 33 (35) evasion. The borkins should be hitting you just from that. You also have -no- vit. So getting hit at all should pretty much take you out for the count.
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SolitaryTurnip



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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:36 am    Post subject:
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The high agil helps, I'm sure.

Quote:
Agility becomes 52 with the potion and 54 with precognition


What? You can get +20 agil from that potion? That's insane.... I had no idea that they were so potent... wow.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:39 am    Post subject:
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SolitaryTurnip wrote:
The high agil helps, I'm sure.

Quote:
Agility becomes 52 with the potion and 54 with precognition


What? You can get +20 agil from that potion? That's insane.... I had no idea that they were so potent... wow.


With the potion trait, you can get up to +25 from a potion.

Then again, those are potions Josie or Dixie (?) are making, and they're both rather talented at doing so. I think a potion I make give likes +5 maybe.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:39 pm    Post subject:
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Keep in mind that boosting agility boosts both chance to increase balance as well as max possible balance. This is on top of the defense bonus agility itself gives.
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Dante
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Joined: 12 Sep 2002
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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:11 pm    Post subject:
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You are aware that perception factors into several areas of combat too right? Try raising that more to the level of your coordination and agility and you should do a bit better.

Yaru is right as well. Your vitality is way low, which will leave you little room for error. As for your other stats, well...I hope you don't use many spells or powers because they won't do much for you (and that you never find yourself on the receiving end of such things too).
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:58 am    Post subject:
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Dante wrote:
Your vitality is way low, which will leave you little room for error.


::inserts his daily bitching about the annoyances of playing a character whose primary weaknesses are low strength and vitality, due to being a child.::
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Warner
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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:10 am    Post subject:
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vitality has what to do with a creature that should have no chance of hitting me while doing non combat stuff or standing still with no burden wounds ect vs a creature that SHOULD be wailing the piss out of me and
consistantly misses while fairly encumbered and wounded.

realistically that is.
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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:12 am    Post subject:
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Warner wrote:
vitality has what to do with a creature that should have no chance of hitting me while doing non combat stuff or standing still with no burden wounds ect vs a creature that SHOULD be wailing the piss out of me and consistantly misses while fairly encumbered and wounded.

realistically that is.


mind rephrasing that so it makes sense?
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drainm2



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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:17 am    Post subject:
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he wants to know how vitality affects combat when doing non-combat activities and how it affects combat in situations where he gets his ass handed to him... basically is a golden rule...

vitality are greater
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drainm2



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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:23 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
vitality has what to do with a creature that should have no chance of hitting me while doing non combat stuff or standing still with no burden wounds


Quote:
a creature that SHOULD be wailing the piss out of me and
consistantly misses while fairly encumbered and wounded.


Quote:
realistically that is


i broke it down into 3 parts that way people with a normal brain can make sense of his pudding. And of course... the most important one is that last one. Realistically.... i'd like to see you stand out in the middle of a snake pit and not get bit even if you wore thick rubber boots they cant bite through. Holy hell, it bit you in the thigh instead of the toe!? Realistically, combat is entirely unpredicticable and it doesnt matter if youre a 8 foot freaky behemoth person or a 1 and half foot pigmy dubbed "Hobbit"... you can bet your money maker that the hobbit can get atleast one hit in on the freak and the sideshow freak will have a hard time hitting the hobbit since its so tiny in comparision.

More effectively. Compare a fly vs you... you have a hard time hitting that fly but give it 100 thwaps and youre bound to get it. To bad the fly doesnt have 100 vit.... he'd be Supa-Fly, word to yo momma in the hood wha wha
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Warner
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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:09 am    Post subject:
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point im getting acrost is hard stats and skills vs hard stats and skills

old combat was too risk free agreed
new combat makes no sense at all
why train evasion at all if at 50 ranks more then you had before
you still get beat on by the same creature that didnt gain any stats/skills
since being tweaked/coded

this was the original point before, someone decided to huck in my low vit,
and call my brains pudding yes i have low vit the question is now wtf does it have to do with my ability to evade
please refer to news 16 before trying to lump the two together.
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