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Brokering and Stuff...
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Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind

 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:34 am    Post subject:
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Brokyn wrote:
So you're going to get anal about the information on the website when there are more important things taking up Trevor's -- and a number of other staff members' -- time?


Why not fix the little stuff too before we go live? It only would make sense to have the best possible information on the website. It was definately one of my pet peeves with DR. The more informed you keep the website, the happier the player base.

It can't be that hard to go in and change the html a little.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:06 am    Post subject:
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Kit wrote:
Why not fix the little stuff too before we go live?


You are here: X
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Giant Gap in Time Here: X
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Live Here: X

Quite frankly, I think many things will change and keep changing before Live is even close. Heck, there is a whole new engagement system rolling out, as well as an exp system that needs to be created/tested/released/tested. So while I do agree that we can use some documentation additions/revisions, I'd [personally] rather not them take the time to do so until they're ready for the dust to settle.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 3648
Location: Northern Georgia

 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:26 pm    Post subject:
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Kit wrote:
Tylen wrote:
Brokyn wrote:
But this is not the time or place to go into all of that, because it's been hashed and rehashed in other places.


Sorry, you're in the Bureaucrat forum which is the place (and there's no time like the present). If you don't want to read about it, then just move along.



I agree. William tends to like to put people down. And I think everyone has the right to voice their opinions, even if William doesn't like those opinions.


Did you even happen to read the post that quote was taken from? I was referring to the fact that I was starting to repeat everything that had already been said countless times before. For which I myself was pummeled about in another thread after my brief hiatus (shame on me for not reviewing every single new thread).

As to me putting people down, I don't go out of my way to say "your idea is stupid" to every single new idea. It may look that way, but I don't. I simply voice my own opinions to other peoples' ideas. Sometimes others agree, sometimes they don't. C'est la vie.

And to get back on topic, Yaru does a better job at saying what I mean (see: above post).

--William
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:31 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
Why not fix the little stuff too before we go live? It only would make sense to have the best possible information on the website. It was definately one of my pet peeves with DR. The more informed you keep the website, the happier the player base.


In theory, I agree. A lot of changes will occur between the two instances of Haelrahv that will make that info obsolete, however. I agree that documentation -- accurate documentation is important. However, see next response.

Quote:
It can't be that hard to go in and change the html a little.


Most of our time is spent doing a barrage of little things, not on massive projects. Oh sure we have those too, but the little things can easily overwhelm you and it happens a lot. Take my word for it, something being "small" in size is not as significant as it might seem.
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Kelasa



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 363

 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:59 pm    Post subject:
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Trevor- Once again my post and the gist of my posts have been completely ignored.

Yaru- I had been playing other classes that were needed as well, and they were fairly well developed on their own, yet I just lost all desire to play at all when my prefered class got their prime bonus taken away without something equal replacing it. If the change had gone through after the case system, the house system, the shop systems were either fixed or implemented, it would give a bureaucrat something to actually do.

Kit- No a broker no longer gets the same price for all units when sold. I would need to have a lot more patience then what I have currently with the game so show you the depth of this change.

Now as I have said repeatedly that I agree some things had to change.. Heck I can even see the point where it makes sense for items to drop AFTER sell like potions did previously. But it still takes away the originally intended benefit of a bureaucrat without them getting any form or recompense for it. Also even if you were in real life and you sold stocks, you would get x number of stocks times by y price to equal x*y - the commision of the stock broker (oh no that dreaded commision word again), not where y falls as x is currently being sold in a bulk bundle. This is the main change I have objection to. This is the problem I see that needs to be fixed.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:38 am    Post subject:
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Kelasa wrote:
Trevor- Once again my post and the gist of my posts have been completely ignored.


I think you're going to keep thinking he ignores you until he says, "Damnit Kelasa, you're right. The commod quirk for bureaucrats is back".

Kelasa wrote:
I just lost all desire to play at all when my prefered class got their prime bonus taken away without something equal replacing it.


That's just it. You think being able to sell without changing the market was your big prime thing. It wasn't in my mind, the fact that your class ends up being the government.

And you didn't get anything equal? Since you 'lost' the ability to not change market values when selling, you have become more and more of a facet of the government as opposed to just some guy sitting outside of Trevero's. You can now actively deal with signing documents that allow players to wed, increase vault space, and the like.

And if you don't like selling commods, sell non commods. Belethe can make a ton for me by selling non foragables. OR just don't get a billion bundles of the same material.
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Dante
Boi Toi


Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 728
Location: Orlando, Florida

 Post Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:56 pm    Post subject:
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Ditto to soundless.

My view? It's nice to have a market that actually fluctuates again. Though, I still wish that I could get free money just for logging in each day. Smile
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winddancer
Hah! In your dreams, bub!


Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 275

 Post Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:02 am    Post subject:
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As far as I'm concerned, brokering was NEVER the prime thing for Bureaucrats. The changes that came through was fine. I have to wonder whether you spent much time with brokering now after the initial changes.

The prices we get for stuff is not that bad.

Perhaps the real problem is that it doesn't send people scurrying after a bureaucrat and forming a line while you broker one after the other with no worries or waste of time. Now people actually have to check prices and then ask a broker for the service. And there's definitely no rush now.

I'm okay with that. I broker for some people, make a little chit chat if needed, then run back to the courthouse for more case work. Even case work will be going through a change that will inconvenience my current style of playing.

If you've grown bored with bureaucrats, that's your right. You've been playing a 'crat for a long time now with little or no noticeable development in the profession. It's understandable if you feel a little frustrated by the changes, since brokering appeared to be Kelasa's big thing.

However, I agree, bureaucrats still have a "prime" ability yet to be.

It's just that brokering is not, and should never have been, the prime ability.

*shrug* But that's just my opinion. I'm okay with the changes, especially since (thank god) Aesal made a comment about the initial changes and Trevor adjusted commodities and the brokering system accordingly.

Bell's player.
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HR-Rikiar
Bureaucrat Guru


Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 115
Location: Right behind you!

 Post Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:05 am    Post subject:
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Hello all! It's been awhile since I've posted. But I've been spending most of my free time in front of an editor working on coding SEVERAL things that will be released at once. The new case system, the justice system, the new organizers among other "little" projects. I'm not releasing one before the others due to the fact that they're all so closely related.

I'm sorry some of you are frustraited with the slow progress, but these systems are being updated (even before release) as I come up with better ways to make things work. I'm hoping that once I get things in order, everyone will be thouroughly pleased with the results.

Everyone hang in there, I apologize for the wait you folks are going through but hopefully things will all work out in the end! Bear with us, we're working hard to give you guys something to keep you involved and entertained. (Least I hope it does!!)
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Eka



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1

 Post Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:08 am    Post subject:
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Thank you for the update, Rikiar. Knew you were working hard, there was never a doubt in my mind.

Eka
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:05 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
75% of players have used a broker to sell things since this change went in. I imagine this might certainly be lower than before, but I personally feel that is quite a large sum of people.


That's a quote from me from 08/27 of last year. I'm going to stop tracking this information as of today but I'd like to note that the final numbers are:

953,208 sales of commodities without a Bureaucrat brokering.

3,205,311 brokered sales.

So roughly 77% of the populace used BROKER for these transactions.
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Orodreth



Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Dungeon Manor

 Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:27 pm    Post subject: Whats a Broker anyway
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I agree with the original poster that the Brokerage changes sucked. note thats past-tense. Of course they sucked when the changes went into effect. Prices were down, you could no longer dump commods on the market with no value change etc.

But the game is in a pre-release version and even IN release, things are likely to continue to evolve. In the real world there is something called government regulation which is "supposed to" add a level of checks and balances to the otherwise free-market.

So, having the game mechanics evolve is something you just need to accept and move on. If you don't like playing the 'crat anymore, there are several other professions to try out.

I myself have only one character, and it is a Bureaucrat. I like the flexibility in this profession because I DO NOT HAVE TO HUNT TO ADVANCE. So I can take certain evolutions in the class/guild in stride because as A GAME there does need to be certain game play balances in order to not totally whack the systems in the game.

Now, it is conceivable that some changes could be mistakes. That happens all the time too. Its nice to be able to have a forum where we can speak our grievances. But we all need to give changes the time it takes to see if they are good for the system even if they are bad for an individual or two.

What I'd like to do is help propose NEW updates that may help smooth out some of the benefits that Brokers had lost. or provide additional gameplay and interaction...

- What if certain commods or items could ONLY BE SOLD through a broker. (Some special permit for radioactive material sales, etc)

- What if certain items could ONLY BE BOUGHT through a broker (think illicit materials that the alchemist shop sells, but only to his trusted broker friends)

- What if certain buyers bought items ONLY from brokers (backstory trust or business agreements in there)

- What if the ticker only updated itself HOURLY or DAILY... but the broker computer organizer tickers updated round the clock (every 5 minutes or whenever the regular system cycle currently occurs)

- What if QUALITY of a commodity played into the random pricing. Say Tandrum Weed from around Llanfair is just saturated with phosphates and it is not as good as the Tantrum Weed available at Loshei Island. This may require a "source" parameter to be added to the foragables and some matrix of modifiers, but whatever we can think of the Gods acan create, right?

Master Orodreth Velldune
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject:
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i like how everyone remembers that brokering once didn't reduce the ticker, but noone seems to notice that most things that are brokered now never fall below 10, which was the cap for each commod. hell, some things reach as high as almost 25 on the ticker.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 3648
Location: Northern Georgia

 Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:11 pm    Post subject:
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Orodreth, those are great suggestions. I'm all about anything that would increase the business-oriented half of the Bureaucrat profession.

I think it would be nice if your level controlled what you could broker. Level would be used to determine your reputation with Terevo and his associates.

Like...

Code:
Level         What can be brokered

10            unrefined plants
15            unrefined stones
20            unrefined metals
25            anything refined
30            potions
35            poisons
40            other items


Yeah, that'd be pretty cool. By "other items" I mean Kit's suggestion of being able to broker the currently non-brokerable items... basically pawning things en masse. I doubt many people will like this idea of dividing things up, though. It would limit the already small population of brokers, but I think it would give more reason for people to level.

--William
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Tylen
Alpha Antifemale


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Whats a Broker anyway
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*double post* Can't we delete posts anymore?
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Last edited by Tylen on Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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