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Brokering and commision/tipping.
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The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Player-Created Polls » Brokering and commision/tipping.
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You ask a bureaucrat to broker for you and--
A bureaucrat agrees to broker 1000 units for $12000. In return for brokering they will keep $2000. Do you agree to this? (please type yes or no)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
A bureaucrat agrees to broker 1000 units for $12000. If you would like to place a tip please enter a percentage now. (please type a number between 0 and 100- (say person entered 10)) You are considering paying a bureaucrat $1200 for their services. Yes/No
45%
 45%  [ 11 ]
Leave the system as it is. I don't want any reminders about tipping.
54%
 54%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 24

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Ponderer



Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 21

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:26 pm    Post subject:
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More effort than typing 'y' at the command prompt, however, might be considered building ones entire character specialized to be proficient in such activities as brokerage.

Tipping as mandatory may not be a well enjoyed idea, but it is also only one idea presented, and I subject that it's not an opinion deserving vitriol. I didn't mind the idea of asking if you'd like to tip on certain actions, but since Trevor said that having that cover the various array of actions commonly accepted as tippable would not be realistic, perhaps something else.

This sounds like it would be just as hard to code but let me suggest it just in case i'm mistaken: Perhaps if we could get event calendars or digital assistants or the like, it could record when commonly tippable actions have happened to you, if you have set it to do so, and then ask if you would like to transfer a tip to their bank account. This may not be so much a concern for brokering, as they are dealing with money right there, unlike crafting or other such actions, but even then considering payment while not under the subtle social pressure of having your benefactor right there might keep some people from avoiding the situation. However, the question of how many are shy and how many are just plain cheap is not one I can answer. I could only imagine that if one were shy, they'd be concerned twofold, worried about tipping too little and insulting them, and worried that the only tip adequate would be too much out of the profits they'd just gained.

Okay, enough on that idea and armchair psychology about shyness.
I think a 'calculate' command or some such might help those who aren't sure what's right to tip. Something along the lines of calculate value percentage, I.e.-'calc 6231 18%'. And perhaps a 'transfer' command to allow people to tip from their account if they don't have money on them. I also think that perhaps a comment that could be given with the brokerage response. Instead of just being able to respond 'y' or 'n' perhaps 'y - I accept tips, most tip 10% but any are appreciated' and you see 'broker brokers on behalf of you and sells this many for that much and says 'I accept tips...' etc.

And while i'm on brokering it might be nice if the system was able to wait for a response without keeping the broker from otherwise acting. On that note it would be nice if people could queue up or 'get in line' for brokerage services. If another has already asked, it could wait until that brokerage is done to send their broker request, considering how fast the transaction is it might not be necessary, but perhaps a bit helpful.

I was talking with someone about the possibility of having an announcement system like a television broadcast or some such as well which could announce the offering of services in advance so those in need can get ready rather than leaving the one offering to announce that they've already started providing the service and then waiting for people to trickle in.

The response I got was 'it's called a communicator' which is fair enough, but I submit that it does not necessarily take into account the amount of chatter on the communicator, announcing plans to broker at a later time would likely be drowned out by the time that time came. A system that people could check to see who's planning to provide what services and when may be easier on all parties involved. Less waiting time for the provider, and knowledge of where to go and when for those seeking services
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Tylen
Alpha Antifemale


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 1192
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:23 am    Post subject:
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Zamde wrote:
Stock brokers in real life also put forth more effort than typing 'y' at a command prompt. If you're going to go out and forage and mine and hunt for me to get the items, that's one thing; but if the extent of my involvement with you is the 3 seconds it takes to commit two keystrokes, I'll sell my own stuff before I submit to a mandated "tip".


Stock brokers also aren't guaranteed to make you any money at all. And if you want to sell your own stuff, it doesn't bother me at all.

Zamde wrote:
Whether you've screwed yourself by building your character to the lowest common denominator is your own problem.


I'm sure you won't be surprised or hurt to hear I don't care what you think about how I've made my character.

Ponderer wrote:
I was talking with someone about the possibility of having an announcement system like a television broadcast or some such as well which could announce the offering of services in advance so those in need can get ready rather than leaving the one offering to announce that they've already started providing the service and then waiting for people to trickle in.

The response I got was 'it's called a communicator' which is fair enough, but I submit that it does not necessarily take into account the amount of chatter on the communicator, announcing plans to broker at a later time would likely be drowned out by the time that time came. A system that people could check to see who's planning to provide what services and when may be easier on all parties involved. Less waiting time for the provider, and knowledge of where to go and when for those seeking services


Ok, once you get past using a low-tech comm, you have at least 10 channels. I'd imagine a few could be designated as announcement channels for various services. This way people could also tune out these channels if they don't want to hear them.

SteveH999 wrote:
Also, you missed the part of the post where I said that applies to EVERYTHING. It's NOT just brokering, and it's NOT just Haelrahv, it's EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE. Tipping is customary for many things, but the amount tipped depends on quality of services rendered. Usually once the service is agreed upon, the type of tip coming is the only leverage a customer retains. So while I wouldn't stiff a waitress on a tip, if they do a great job then I'm likely going to tip them more. Or a haircut, or a cab ride, or...

Similarly, if their service is very bad, I have the option to lower the amount I tip, or withhold it alltogether. And I can remember not to use the services of that person in the future.


Hm and what leverage do I have if I'm not tipped? That's why I'm going to start taking out contracts on people who don't tip me (well if I ever broker for the public. Mercs could probably use the business).
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SolitaryTurnip



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:33 am    Post subject:
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Tylen wrote:
Hm and what leverage do I have if I'm not tipped? That's why I'm going to start taking out contracts on people who don't tip me (well if I ever broker for the public. Mercs could probably use the business)


That's the best idea I've heard in a long time.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:39 am    Post subject:
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How can you hire mercs to hunt down people who don't do a voluntary thing.

This is why I hate it when people start asking for ways to get tips, when what they clearly want is a way to get paid.
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Tylen
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:51 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
How can you hire mercs to hunt down people who don't do a voluntary thing.


There's a board in the Darju quarter for it.

soundless wrote:
This is why I hate it when people start asking for ways to get tips, when what they clearly want is a way to get paid.


Perhaps you didn't read what I said. If I were to broker for the public, I'd state up front that I charge 10% for each transaction. If the person agrees but refuses to pay up afterward, then I'll have them killed. Call it a penalty for breach of (verbal) contract.
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winddancer
Hah! In your dreams, bub!


Joined: 23 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:55 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
How can you hire mercs to hunt down people who don't do a voluntary thing.

This is why I hate it when people start asking for ways to get tips, when what they clearly want is a way to get paid.


I agree with that.

If you insist on getting money, then it's a payment service, so you'll need to be upfront about expecting payment. It helps to word it in a nice way so you don't get people's backs up right away.

If you are like me, and don't want to demand money but STILL want to get money, do what I do. Lay on guilt trips on people really thick. Smile

Hee.

Belethe
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SteveH999



Joined: 28 Jun 2004
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:41 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
Hm and what leverage do I have if I'm not tipped? That's why I'm going to start taking out contracts on people who don't tip me (well if I ever broker for the public. Mercs could probably use the business).

Thanks for twisting and misconstruing my comments.
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Tylen
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:55 am    Post subject:
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SteveH999 wrote:
Thanks for twisting and misconstruing my comments.


Sure thing. You did remember that's just standard practice for posting in forums like this?

Anyway, I'm not saying I'm worrying specifically about your not tipping. I'm talking about the random any-customer-off-the-street. Don't take it so personally.
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Kelasa



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:24 am    Post subject:
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Please note that the topic does say COMMISION/Tipping. Commision would be the expected payment. Tipping is the voluntary gift for services rendered.
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SteveH999



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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:56 am    Post subject:
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Tylen wrote:
Sure thing. You did remember that's just standard practice for posting in forums like this?

Yes, I just generally choose not to. It does seem to be SOP with you as far as I can tell.

Tylen wrote:
Anyway, I'm not saying I'm worrying specifically about your not tipping. I'm talking about the random any-customer-off-the-street. Don't take it so personally.

I know this also.
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Tylen
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:37 am    Post subject:
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Great, I'm glad we cleared that up.
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ragonda
A fearful red dragon


Joined: 08 Sep 2003
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:33 pm    Post subject:
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if ya do ya job well then ya shouldnt need to wait for tips . as a trooper i dun wait for a tip everytime i hunt or do something tropperly wich is rare for me .
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Ashes2Ashes
The 'crat and the street-rat


Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:01 am    Post subject:
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I really don't see any need to force commissions out of people. Most of them, from what I've seen/heard, already tip brokers or at least try to.

Being a young Bureaucrat (yes, a very young one, and unable to broker yet), I spend my days excavating, mining and/or foraging in order to level. Trying cases costs me money, I have very little fishing skill and I chose to not train combat, so at this point, excavating, foraging and mining are my only real options.

My BIGGEST problem is finding another bureaucrat of sufficient skill to sell the things I mine and forage. I don't mind tipping other crats until I'm old enough to do other things, but today I just reached my limit.

Repeatedly begging on the comm for a broker for over an hour, and all three bureaucrats visible IG (profession showing) via FIND ignored me (non of whom were afk according to WHO FULL). Now I know 10-20% isn't incredible, but it's decent (IMO) for maybe 10-15 seconds of a broker's time, and it is what I usually tip. I was at the point that I had NO more room...and was about ready to crash the market which would have angered a lot of people.

THIS is what makes me angry from the discussion going on, are those expecting to not only get commission, but get it at your own leisure (essentially having your cake and eating it too). Real world business doesn't work this way. If you want people to pay you, then be available, be polite, be helpful, or your customers go elsewhere.

I'm feeling rather gripy at the moment, but I'm also really sick of begging for a broker for hours and then coming here and reading this stuff.

PS: Thank you Belethe for responding immediately (after you came online) when I asked for a broker. It was appreciated, and the only time I've seen you not respond, you were out excavating.
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:14 am    Post subject:
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An entirely valid complaint. Personally, I would have just crashed the market if I didn't get a Bureaucrat after a couple of minutes.
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winddancer
Hah! In your dreams, bub!


Joined: 23 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:55 am    Post subject:
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Awww. That's so sweet. *hugs* Thank you for the kind words. Very Happy

One of the reasons I'm glad I'm a broker is that I can sell my own stuff *G* I'm such a cheapskate. I MUST get good value out of my stuff, otherwise I'll be lugging around the stuff for a week.

That being said, I don't want to spend all of my time brokering for people. Especially when they come singly. But I understand the frustration when you can't find a broker or can't get a response when you know a broker's around, so normally what I do is let people know that I won't be able to broker for X hours/minutes. ...Unless I'm really grouchy. Then I turn off my comm. Very Happy

I also prefer private transmissions when possible, since I do have a tendency not to read the comm window. *G* If I'm reading email or surfing the net, I have my browser window set at the top half of the screen size, so I can still pay attention to what's going on in the game. But the comm window is on top, so it gets hidden by the browser. *G*

Belethe's player.
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