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Weapon / Armor info.
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The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Combat & Hunting » Weapon / Armor info.
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:48 am    Post subject: Weapon / Armor info.
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Lo folks. If numbers and details make you cringe, be warned. Wink

I'm beginning to get into the combat nitty gritty, and I'm going to pass along plans and info as I go along. There are few things I need to say straight off the bat however.

First of all, I am not an expert on combat by any means, despite having written a combat system from scratch before for Modus. Most of the details I will provide are based on research and assumptions, some of which may be erronious, and for that I apologize. To be frank, I don't regularly handle guns at all for example, and have not fired one in years, though I have handled and fired a few varities of handguns and rifles. I'm counting on my research as well as feedback from others with more first hand knowledge to be as accurate as possible. If you have something to contribute, feel free.

Secondly, it is not my goal to make a fully realistic combat system. It is my primary goal to make a balanced and enjoyable combat system for a gaming scenario, and to not overly complicate the process. For this reason, issues such as terrain and cover are not really applied to combat. Weather conditions will be applied to an extent, but not in great detail. And, while I do endeavor to provide automatic weapons and incredibly high power weapon options, I am forced to tone these down and temper them into something that keeps our little game playable.

Lastly, we have elected to stick with real world / human / earth measurements for the most part in Haelrahv. Weight is measured in ounces / pounds, and for the purposes of ammunition, terms like millimeter are still applied. While it is my firm belief that different terms / measures would exist on a world like Haelrahv, this would only complicate gameplay and confuse a majority of players.

I'll lay out the premise of weaponry and armor below. These are just brief overviews of how each type will work.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Unarmed Combat

The Good:
- No weapon or ammunition cost.
- High accuracy.
- Mostly equally effective against both armored and unarmored targets.
- Generally faster than melee or thrown attacks.

The Bad:
- More significantly hindered by the use of armor or encumbrance.
- Requires close range.
- Generally slightly lower damage.
- Counter abilities/armors/spells such as Static Cloak are more dangerous.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Melee Weapons (Knives, Swords, Blunt Weapons, etc.):

The Good:
- High penetration factor.
- High shock/stun factor.
- Usually high resistance to breakage.
- Inexpensive.
- Generally quite accurate.
- Poisons may be applied.

The Bad:
- High instance of combat clashing.
- Significantly slower than fired weapons.
- Requires close range.
- More tiring to use.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Thrown Weapons:

The Good:
- Usually relatively resistant to breakage.
- Inexpensive.
- Usually may be used as a melee weapon, conferring melee benefits and penalties.
- Does not require close range.
- Counter abilities/armors/spells such as Static Cloak are ineffective.
- Poisons may be applied.

The Bad:
- Low penetration factor.
- High instance of combat clashing.
- Significantly slower than fired weapons.
- More tiring to use than fired weapons, but less than melee.
- Very Low accuracy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Archery Weapons:

The Good:
- Relatively inexpensive.
- Does not require close range and performs well at longer ranges.
- Generally may be loaded and fired fairly quickly.
- A variety of ammunition types are available and are relatively inexpensive and re-usable.
- Less tiring to use than melee weapons.
- Ammunition may be easily crafted by hand and weapons are easy to repair.
- May be equiped with accessories to improve performance.
- Counter abilities/armors/spells such as Static Cloak are ineffective.
- Poisons may be applied.

The Bad:
- Low resistance to breakage.
- Poor performance and penetration at close range.
- Accuracy is greatly affected by weather conditions.
- Requires reloading after each shot in many (but not all) cases.

Ammunition types:
- Standard Arrow / Bolt: No specific bonus or penalty.
- Barbed Arrow / Bolt: +1 Damage, -1 Penetration.
- Razor Arrow / Bolt: +1 Damage, +1 Penetration, +1 Cost/Craft Time.
- Incendiary Arrow / Bolt: +2 Damage, -1 Penetration, +1 Cost/Craft Time.
- Ishaian Arrow / Bolt: +2 Damage, +2 Penetration, -2 Accuracy, +2 Cost/Craft Time.
- Blunt Arrow / Bolt: -1 Damage, -1 Penetration, -1 Accuracy, -2 Cost/Craft Time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Firearms:

The Good:
- Does not require close range.
- A variety of ammunition types are available.
- Capable of firing multiple shots quickly before reloading is required.
- Generally produces high damage.
- Has a high potential to stun wounded targets.
- May be equiped with accessories to improve performance.
- Counter abilities/armors/spells such as Static Cloak are ineffective.

The Bad:
- Both weapons and ammunition are expensive.
- Low resistance to breakage.
- Somewhat low accuracy and dark conditions significantly reduce accuracy as well.
- While damage is reduced when used from a distance, close quarters combat leaves the weapon at risk of damage.
- Ammunition may not be crafted or created by hand.
- Armored targets may be mostly unphased by hits if low penetration ammunition is used.
- Weapons may jam or misfire.
- Recoil causes low accuracy in automatic firearms.

Ammunition types:
- Revolvers
Ball: Standard full metal jacket round with no notable bonus/penalty.
Dum-Dum: Damage +1, Penetration -1, Accuracy -2, Jam +2, Cost -2.

- Handguns
Ball: Standard full metal jacket round with no notable bonus/penalty.
Armor Piercing: +1 Damage, +2 Penetration, +1 Accuracy, Cost +3.
Dum-Dum: Damage +1, Penetration -1, Accuracy -2, Jam +2, Cost -3.
Exploding: +2 Damage, +1 Stun, -1 Penetration, Accuracy -1, Cost +1.
Frangible AET Composite: +1 Damage, +2 Penetration, Accuracy -1, Cost +2.
Frangible AET THV: +1 Damage, +1 Penetration, Cost +2.
Frangible Glaser: +3 Damage, +2 Stun, -3 Penetration, Cost +1.
Hollow Point: +2 Damage, -1 Penetration, +1 Stun, Cost +2.
Plus-P: +2 Damage, +1 Jam, +2 Cost.
Wadcutter: +1 Damage, -1 Penetration, +1 Stun, +1 Jam.

- Rifles / Machineguns
Ball: Standard full metal jacket round with no notable bonus/penalty.
Armor Piercing: +1 Damage, +2 Penetration, +1 Accuracy, Cost +3.
Hollow Point: +2 Damage, -1 Penetration, +1 Stun, Cost +2.
Wadcutter: +1 Damage, -1 Penetration, +1 Stun, +1 Jam.

- Shotgun
Buckshot: Standard round with no notable bonus/penalty.
Slug: +1 Damage, -1 Accuracy.
Hollow Point Slug: +2 Damage, -1 Accuracy, +1 Cost.
Flechette: +2 Damage, +1 Accuracy, +1 Stun, +3 Cost.

Notes:
- Revolvers do not jam and are slightly more accurate than handguns or rifles.
- Revolvers hold less ammunition and take longer to load.
- Rifles do not suffer accuracy penalties at longer ranges.
- Machineguns have low accuracy but a very high rate of fire.
- Shotguns receive -1 Damage/Accuracy/Stun at missile range, +1 to each at Melee.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Pulse Weapons:

The Good:
- Does not require close range.
- Is equally accurate and powerful at close or far ranges.
- Capable of firing a very high number of shots before recharging or cooling are necessary.
- Produces high to very high damage.
- Fires very rapidly.
- May be equiped with accessories to improve performance.
- Counter abilities/armors/spells such as Static Cloak are ineffective.

The Bad:
- Weapons are extremely expensive.
- Once recharging or cooling are required, weapon cannot be used for a lengthy period of time.
- Fairly inaccurate.
- Low resistance to breakage.
- Some special armors can greatly resist the effects of non-ionic pulse weapons.
- Weapon can be damaged by overheating.
- Poisons, incendiaries and other special modifications may not be applied to this type of weapon.

Pulse Types:
- Standard Pulse
High damage factor.
High drain on energy cell.
High heat generation.
Virtually ineffective against anti-pulse armor.

- Ionic Pulse
Low to no damage.
Low drain on energy cell.
Low heat generation.
Lower than usual accuracy.
Effective against any armor type.
Can temporarily reduce the effectiveness of anti-pulse armor.

Notes: Some pulse weapons can fire both standard and ionic pulse, while others only fire one type. Generally an ionic pulse is used to weaken anti-pulse armor, then standard pulse is used to directly damage the target. High grade anti-pulse armors may be virtually impossible to penetrate without using this method.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The above mention of penetration modifiers is important against armored targets (including naturally armored targets like Jaddan). If you fail to penetrate the target's armor, you do no damage except to their armor (no damage is done to natural armor, however).

Finally, I'll list the calibers of ammunition currently planned for firearms. This is not a final list, just what I'm looking at currently, and draws straight off of real life earth calibers. It is extremely likely that more calibers will be added that are not necessarily used IRL. This list does not include ALL calibers, just those I chose to add. If anyone strongly believes a caliber should be added that is missing, let me know.

Revolvers:
.22 cal.
.32 cal.
.38 cal.
.357 Magnum
.44 cal.

Handguns:
.22 cal.
.357 Magnum
.44 cal.
.45 cal.
.50 cal.
7.62mm
7.65mm
9mm
10mm

Rifles
.30 cal.
5.45mm
5.56mm
7.62mm
7.92mm

Shotgun
10-gauge
12-gauge
20-gauge

Sub-machinegun
7.62mm
9mm

Machinegun
.30 cal.
5.56mm

<pant>

[Note: Updated ammo calibers]

[Updated: Hollow Point Ammos, Plus-P, Added Shotgun Ammos & Shotgun modifiers, Added .50 cal. handgun]
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Last edited by HR-Trevor on Sat Nov 02, 2002 5:33 pm; edited 4 times in total
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shadows_slave



Joined: 26 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 4:10 am    Post subject:
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::babbles incoherantly for a while as her mind swims with all the information::

one thing i never liked about light thrown weapons was the low puncture. I can accept the incredibly low accuracy, but i figure if i chuck a knife at something and hit it...its gonna hurt...

then again, i've never actually THROWN a knife at anything ::ponders::

::goes back to babbling::
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 4:20 am    Post subject:
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Sadly, thrown weapons do have low rate of piercing through armor (if they are the piercing variety at all, that is). Not only do you have to be careful to actually strike with the piercing end <g> but usually there just isn't enough momentum behind the throw as compared to a bow or gun, because we just can't throw that hard on our own steam. Wink

Course, who knows, maybe some sort of device will allow people to throw harder or something, it's possible. This also doesn't preclude thrown weapons from being effective... they work well against unarmored targets, but also, blunt varieties are quite effective too, since armors often don't provide as much protection against impact.

The nice thing is, most weapons that are throwable are also virtually as effective or more effective as a melee weapon, so you can choose when to throw and when to swing, based on the nature of your opponent.
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HR-Phoenix



Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 104
Location: Titan City, Haelrahv

 Post Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 12:50 pm    Post subject:
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40 ranks of Light Thrown in ** an still couldn't do what I saw in the movies - when this pirate swings from a rope, lands on his feet with cat like agility and throws this knife right into the forehead of this sailor ::whistles low::

Now if it was **...

40 ranks of Light Thrown and you swing from a rope onboard the Ly***el, land firmly on your ass because you can't do that kinda thing with 160 ranks in Evasion and 35 in Agility. You attempt to throw your light thrown dagger with your poor balance, you get a direct hit to the pirates right eye but bounces right off ::flails::

~phoenix~
(Who didn't mention DR for good reasons - Doh!)
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Durinthal
Arr!


Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 122

 Post Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 4:58 pm    Post subject:
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::stares blankly at page::

Bah, I'm sick. Numbers are bad for me right now.
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:06 pm    Post subject:
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Somehow, I think I've managed to make everyone speechless with this post. I don't know if this is good or bad. ;D
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Durinthal
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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:35 pm    Post subject:
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Normally I'd appreciate it and start planning something but, like I said, I'm sick.
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Dragoonseal



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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 5:22 am    Post subject:
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Holy hissoi! <bounces off the walls>

I um.. er.. wow!

I'm hyper to the point of speechless at the moment mostly <g>. But I would like to say that I hope thrown weapons will be made semi useful, or at least cool, unlike in that other game.

I'll post more on stuff after a bit.
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


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Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:46 am    Post subject:
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Heh, given that thrown weapons were generally considered worthless from what I gather in the 'other game', I think our chances of doing better are pretty good. Very Happy
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Dragoonseal



Joined: 11 Sep 2002
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:48 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
Armor Piercing: +1 Damage, +2 Penetration, +1 Accuracy, Cost +3.
Hollow Point: +1 Damage, -1 Penetration, +1 Stun, Cost +1.

This is something I don't quite agree on. I don't see AP type having the same damage modifier as JHPs, JHPs are designed to do a lot more damage as they expand on impact, but of course don't go through armor well. AP type being designed to pierce through armor, but not cause additional damage.

HEAP rounds on the other hand... Mr. Green
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Dragoonseal



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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:58 am    Post subject:
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For shotguns I'd suggest slug shots, and also hollow point slug shots. Normal buckshot types having more of an accuracy bonus then slug types.
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Dragoonseal



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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 10:02 am    Post subject:
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Also, on Plus P (+p) ammo, +p type ammo is ammunition that is made with a higher pressure level then normal, so its fired with more velocity and more of a kick. So its gonna hurt more, and hell maybe even pierce more, but also gives more recoil. I've also read that it can be dangerous to use.

I'd have to give it something like: +1 damage, +1 penetration, +1 jam, +1 cost

Or: +2 damage, +1 jam, +1 cost

Just throwin out ideas.
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Dragoonseal



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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2002 11:41 pm    Post subject:
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Bullets.. bullets... hehe.. heh.. hehehe.. bullets...
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Nojym



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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:52 am    Post subject:
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No sneering here Dragoon, I like this place. Twisted Evil

Nojym
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Nojym



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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:07 am    Post subject:
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Just throwin this out there (I'm so curious it's about to drive me mad). I've heard mentioned of upgradablity possible to the long range weapons. One thing in particular, can we expect to see silenced pistols?

Nojym
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