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Money poll #1
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The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Polls » Money poll #1
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Which best describes how you feel about the economy?
Overall, I think I make money easier than I should -- not that I'm complaining!
18%
 18%  [ 8 ]
I find myself making less money than I think I deserve for the effort I put in for it.
54%
 54%  [ 24 ]
Try as I might, I can't say I make too much or too little!
27%
 27%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 44

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Xice



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 61
Location: Blanketing the sky with his bright Blue Moon!

 Post Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:41 am    Post subject:
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Wanted to make a comment here myself. I know a lot of young people hunt chiths and honestly I think they produce pretty decent cash for such a low level creature. Think of it in these terms. The creature you are killing can only get treasure equal to what it could gather/take from people of a similar level. So if you are a third level trooper moping the floor with chiths don't expect them to have a lot of treasure. It should progress evenly as you go up. I am not sure it does because I'm not much of a hunter but from what I've noticed it holds up pretty well. Just my thought and opinion for the day.
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SolitaryTurnip



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Your mom (burn)

 Post Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:15 am    Post subject:
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I think I make okay money by hunting... well, not right now because I'm fighting guards and does/bucks. Vacori are a pretty good source of income, because their skins are so lightweight, but they don't drop boxes. I could fight guards all day and probably not make too much unless I found a rare item or two (which, with my crappy perception and lack of Lucky, doesn't happen often *grins*).
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Dzynna
Shadow Master


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: Somewhere in the wilds

 Post Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:37 pm    Post subject:
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Sorkaa wrote:
This seems really off to me. Back when I hunted 'zerkers, I made about 3k per 20 minutes. What're you hunting?


The last thing I went and hunted was mamujuk/borkin/eobais. The income level I posted was from them.

I can kill them all in one or two shots, so it's not a matter of taking a long time to kill.
They never touch me, so it's not a matter of needing to stop for healing.
I have maxed skinning.
I have maxed security (and open all my boxes/sell everything).
I have lucky trait.

I'll do a test today and post exactly how much I pulled in from say...30 minutes of several activities.

Xice wrote:
Wanted to make a comment here myself. I know a lot of young people hunt chiths and honestly I think they produce pretty decent cash for such a low level creature.


My point wasn't that X creature isn't in line financially compared to X creature, my point is that hunting nets me way less than anything else, yet it *should* net the most because it is the highest risk.
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Dzynna
Shadow Master


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: Somewhere in the wilds

 Post Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:37 am    Post subject:
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Okay, I divided my net profits from borkins in half because of the money thing that was going on.

30 minutes in borkin warriors: $2617, cost me about 50 some-odd bolts (so subtract about $10 from that) and didn't fill my mind completely.

30 minutes foraging: $9639, cost me nothing and did fill my mind completely (actually overwhelmed it).

Granted, this is with a Tracker with maxed ecology, but still...it's a bit off, IMO.
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:52 am    Post subject:
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Was that off skins primarily? How many box drops? Roughly how many borkins did you kill?
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Dzynna
Shadow Master


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: Somewhere in the wilds

 Post Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:07 am    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
Was that off skins primarily? How many box drops? Roughly how many borkins did you kill?


Most of it was from skins, although there were about 5 boxes and some cash I found searching.

Roughly 25 or so critters, borkins warriors and mamujuk berserkers mostly, but there were also a few eobais workers and foragers.
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ragonda
A fearful red dragon


Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 614

 Post Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:34 am    Post subject:
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i dont make potions i dont forage that much and i suppose apart from fishing chatting and hunting i do not really do much .... i refuse to use scripts even tho im present an alert when in haelrahv and i find for a level 23 a 30k income is sufficient for my day to day needs but i find it extremely difficult to raise enough cash for alterers and unless i sat and mined 24/7 or made potions i dont really see my bank balance exceeding 30k
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:20 am    Post subject:
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I think in reality, if I were to change anything with this stuff I would have to do all of the following to justify it all:
  • Lower forage income notably, but less so for refined items.
  • Maybe raise potion values, I'd need to look. At least make the level of the potion less important.
  • Raise combat related payouts.
  • Modify foraging and mining with some new features to make them more interesting/fun.
  • Possibly adjust skin values or failure rates or something.


I don't think just raising combat stuff is the solution because it does seem what we have is a bit too much money from forage/mining (at the same time these being boring) -- at least to SOME degree, and too little money from combat.

As a final note, the economy would flow better if people were more willing to use the services of others. For instance - Artisans or anyone else who tailors. If you bought your skins at a reasonable price from skinners, they could make extra cash without having to tailor and you could make extra cash without having to train skinning / go out and get skins.

I've also seen some people rebuffed for trying to charge for repairing comms. Why? It's a necessary service, and $150 won't set you back much. If there was an NPC charging $500 to do it, people would pay it in a heartbeat. I'm sure some people will say "but X service is free, why should this be?" to which I say -- why should X service be free? If this is your buddy and you really want to do something free, sure. But even in the real world, time = money and work is work, and even friends have to pay sometimes.

Thoughts are welcome.
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SolitaryTurnip



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Your mom (burn)

 Post Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:46 am    Post subject:
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Well, here's my test... I fought in Vacoris for a little over 30 minutes and earned $14630 from 75 feathers. They're pretty close to on-level with me... not too much risk, but I don't know if the next thing (probably Kucho) would pay any better, because they can't be skinned. I'd be curious to see how much someone with, say, 160 ecol (you might be able to take vacori with 160 in defenses) could make in 30 minutes.

While foraging is definitely duller than fighting, it's certainly easier, I think. I'll try Kucho for 30 minutes after the reset to see how much I can get from boxes alone.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:02 am    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
I've also seen some people rebuffed for trying to charge for repairing comms. Why? It's a necessary service, and $150 won't set you back much. If there was an NPC charging $500 to do it, people would pay it in a heartbeat.


Actually, I only quit trying to tip because I came to realize everyone helps each other for free most of the time in Haelrahv. The only time I ever see people tipped is when someone is new and clearly needs some startup money.
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Damien



Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 21
Location: in your pockets...

 Post Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:55 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
The only time I ever see people tipped is when someone is new and clearly needs some startup money.


I actually tip quite often. Always tip my broker, and try to tip medics (except dixie Cool ) pretty often. Think it would be a good idea for techs to start chargin to fix comms. Not an ungodly amount, but they should get theirs too.
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SolitaryTurnip



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Your mom (burn)

 Post Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:59 am    Post subject:
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Alright, I started my Kucho test, and realized something that kinda bothers me. To start, I just want to say that I know my perception sucks, but I talked to Mellie, who has a lot more, and there was only a $10-15 change. When I kill the highest normal creature in the game (Thekko doesn't count, and I have no idea where the Risheso is *grins*), I only get around $50 from searching. I do get the occasional box, which somewhat balances it out, but it just kinda seems silly that the Kucho (level 75) only gives $30 more than a berserker (level 18 ).

After about 10 min. in Kucho, I made about $5000, maybe... but that's because I got an Ilafai book in one of my boxes... so that's about even with vacori. The lure of ultra-rares, plus the fact that I don't really need money right now, will keep me fighting there (after I get sufficiently evil), but I don't think the payout stacks up with foraging.
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:03 pm    Post subject:
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Thanks for the feedback/info. Smile
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Dzynna
Shadow Master


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: Somewhere in the wilds

 Post Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:04 am    Post subject:
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Trevor wrote:
Lower forage income notably, but less so for refined items.


I think the biggest reason I get so much more from foraging is not because of the too high value (although they are possibly somewhat overvalued...but that is made up for a lot by the market fluctuations), but more because I'm a Tracker with maxed ecology.

My level 4 Medic with maxed ecology can't even forage as well as Dzynna could at level 1...and the gap widens with every training of ecology.

Trevor wrote:
Maybe raise potion values, I'd need to look. At least make the level of the potion less important.


I really can't say on this. Dzynna doesn't make potions and Riwa's abilities aren't great yet.

Trevor wrote:
Raise combat related payouts.


Somewhat, IMO, it shouldn't be too great of a change, just enough adjustment on all sides so the higher risk gives the higher reward.

Trevor wrote:
Modify foraging and mining with some new features to make them more interesting/fun.


Oh that would just be too cool. *begs and pleads*

Trevor wrote:
Possibly adjust skin values or failure rates or something.

This would be great. Adjust the exp learned from skinning (the harder it is to skin, the more exp you get for success), and the values. Right now I can sell a barely skinned pelt for the same value as a 'perfect' one.

On the subject of charging for things, I really don't understand why people *don't* charge....but then I come from years of playing DR where nothing was free. I always tip the people who assist me (broker, medic, tech, etc.) and get flustered when they refuse the tips. I don't understand people (beyond the newbies, and they should still say thanks) who walk away without even a 'Thank you', much less tips. Anyway, just my oddball ramblings on money.
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Deblaeju



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 112

 Post Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:07 pm    Post subject:
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as for the hunting pay, can't argue about that, hunting sabres can make almost 6k in half hour maybe at most. don't do bad cept boxes per unlucky an even then don't do so bad.
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