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Yaru's thread on Mickey's Plans!
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EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:19 pm    Post subject: Yaru's thread on Mickey's Plans!
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For those who missed the meeting...

bear with me, as my convo logging system is a bit half-assed and hand coded (sorta) so it doesn't work all that hot.

the TL:DR points.

1) Different professions will have different roll bonuses/penalties in combat. Higher Tiers are better for these rolls. These are just for physical attacks/defenses (I think). I also think that this is already in effect since forever ago's combat update, but it'll be more notable this time around.

Troopers Mercs and Guardians will be Tier 1
Agents and Trackers will be Tier 2
Techs Performers Mages and Psionics will be Tier 3
'Crats Artisans and Medics will be Teir 4

2) Vital body parts won't be vital anymore. Or as vital. Or something. The jist of it is that shoot someone's chest/back/head/neck/abdomen to nonexistance won't be the insta death it is now. It'll still be a very bad thing to have no face or neck or back or etc etc etc, but it won't be fatal.

3) All stats will matter more. Gorging on Coordination Agility and Mentality won't be the magic key to combat that it currently is. Playing off the previously mentioned point, Vitality will matter more now that blowing out a vital body part as the main way to kill something is going away (sorta). Charisma will play in defensive formulas by reducing someone's chance to hit a specific part of your body.

There's more on the way but the server crashed at a really bad time (I blame Hannah!) so Mickey had to go.

Code:
xavain gramorham asks: a merc will always beat an equally promoted medic or artisan, etc?
mickey brunner says: well, let me get to that.
vyraal vywrath says: being better then someone shouldnt have to do with profession as it does with how one is trained.  however profession traits should come in to play reguardless.
anyet alqualonde says: true.
mickey brunner says: that's not set in stone, but it's a start.
xavain gramorham says: makes sense.
anyet alqualonde says: looks like your peaceful ways are on the bottom.
vega shadowknight says: i woulda thought mage would be higher.
anyet alqualonde says: you'll always be bad ass in my book, father.
mickey brunner asks: in terms of raw combat?
vega shadowknight asks: you mean like hand to hand and bladed?
you say: mages are probably treated like glass cannons. big magical damage but one ding and kaboom.
brenton miller asks: how is this going to play out? lower damage done, less ability to train in combat skills?
mickey brunner says: i'm not sure what percentage of players are actually aware of it, but there's already a system in place that (although to a milder degree) that emphasizes a combat profession in combat versus one that's not.lˇa(>
mickey brunner says: - a that.
you say: i was going to ask what about that chart and what is in play already. like me scoring an f in my combat bonus rolls or whatever it is.
you ask: just that the differences will be stressed even more?
mickey brunner says: but when the rubber hits the road, as i perceive things presently, there's very little (if any real) difference between a medic with 100 coord 100 ment and 100 agility and 200 bladed, and a trooper with the same.
mickey brunner says: except that the medic can revive, and the trooper can... just keep bashing things.
xavain gramorham says: we should probably let him spit out the idea before we pick it appart.
mickey brunner says: thanks.
vega shadowknight says: understandable.
mickey brunner says: to simplify it, what i want to do is make combat a reason to play a combat profession.
mickey brunner says: i'm not trying to demean or belittle 'support' classes, because god knows we need those too.
vyraal vywrath says: should that be where stats come into play and perhaps the face that a trooper has more skill with heavy armor.
anonnda svitkonya says: we all need special bags.
vyraal vywrath says: shouldnt, excuse me.
vega shadowknight says: i see, i guess i just jumped to conclusion cause i see myself as more of a combat mage than a potion maker.
anyet alqualonde exclaims: warmage!
vyraal vywrath says: that table was a combat prowless table.
vyraal vywrath says: not a power talbe.
vyraal vywrath says: in terms of fighting ability a mage shouldnt be as high as a guardian, merc, and trooper and thats reflected in the table.
anonnda svitkonya says: can you show the table again? i missed it.
vyraal vywrath says: but if that was a damage table.
mickey brunner turns to vyraal vywrath and asks: well, to wit, let me reference what i just said about identical stats... as it stands now, who has the upper hand in a fight between you with x stat, y, stat and z stat, and a support class with identical stats?
vyraal vywrath says: i bet a mage would be higher up the list.
mickey brunner asks: or, to turn that on its head, a support class who managed a better min-max build than you?
mickey brunner says: at any rate, the tiers are reflective of combat at-level.  tier one can feasibly expect to hunt at 5-10 levels above their effective level; tier two, at level; three, 5-10 below level; and four, more than that.lˇhz>)
mickey brunner says: and like i said, that's not set in stone.  one of the tables i presented to level wasn't as drastic.
mickey brunner says: e.
mickey brunner says: r.
mickey brunner says: keys are sticky.
mickey brunner says: one of the ones i presented to trevor, i mean.
mickey brunner says: if you're familiar with d20 at all, think of it like base attack bonuses.
anonnda svitkonya asks: so would that make us more suceptable to magic if your tier one or such?
you say: if as an artisan i'm expected to hunt below my combat level, how will that influence flexing enemies, let alone things like the treasure system as it is now being very skewed toward me hunting at my level.ˇۇ
vega shadowknight asks: is that close combat or combat in general?
mickey brunner says: trevor wants me to re-manage treasure, too.  and it's all accounted for.
you say: and the flexing difficulty enemies too? i know that there was talk of that 200+ hunting area...
mickey brunner says: i'm not sure how some of them work, but it stands to reason (at least from the coding side) that it will all come out in the wash.)ˇ@D
anyet alqualonde says: i have to confess i'm a bit lost with all this, but i think i get the point.
mickey brunner says: re: mage combat... although it sounds like it, i'm not trying to outfit most professions with kid gloves.  you'll be able to hunt with any profession, and that won't change.  what will be changing is where you stand in the pecking order.
vega shadowknight asks: two questions, so even using magic skills, i will have to hunt below level? and does that mean the expirience system will be reworked alittle so creatures dont run and such?@
mickey brunner says: and that's not to say in some character build you won't be able to cast this or that spell or summon this effect and beat the tar out of given character, but that's splitting hairs in a way that will only slow down what i'm trying to get to here.
mickey brunner says: i'm working on that stuff too.  as a rule of thumb, assume that i've anticipated pretty much every loose end.
vega shadowknight says: i dont mean to be difficult, i just pride myself in fighting.
mickey brunner says: i understand.
brenton miller says: i know you said the chart was a general outline not set in stone, but it's just my opinion that medics should be at least higher tier than bureaucrats and artisans.0
brenton miller says: maybe it's just me, but i always think of medics as going to the action, and since the action around here is more combat oriented...ˇ
anonnda svitkonya says: i see your point.
anyet alqualonde asks: like a combat or field medic?
brenton miller says: yeah, with a term like medic i think there should be the opportunity to play it like one of those.
anonnda svitkonya says: medics are no help to the big guys if they can't get near 'm.
anonnda svitkonya says: in combat anyway.
you say: i don't think that just because you'll be a lower tier, you'll explode upon reaching something at level. you just won't kill it as quicky and and effectively as a higher tier.‡
mickey brunner says: let me move on for now.  i've got a good bit of ground yet to cover.
mickey brunner exclaims: next up on the plate: stats!
mickey brunner says: first and foremost, the prejudiced extinction of the big three.
mickey brunner says: maxing coordination, mentality and agility will no longer win the game.
vyraal vywrath asks: what about perception?
vyraal vywrath says: i think that should be included in those three.
vyraal vywrath says: since its also a powerful stat.
mickey brunner says: my proposal to trevor puts emphasis nearly every stat to *near* equal coverage.  no matter how obscure.
xavain gramorham says: if we wait and let him talk, we may find he already planned to give us the answers to the questions we're slowing him down with.)ˇ@D
brenton miller asks: will charisma allow me to win battles with good looks and a charming smile?
mickey brunner says: charisma will go back to being the backbone of resisting thbp.
mickey brunner says: to start.
anonnda svitkonya asks: thbp?
mickey brunner says: to hit body part.
mickey brunner says: i think either marduk or trevor coined that.
mickey brunner says: directed body damage works on a attacker-versus-defender system.
mickey brunner says: oh, wait.  found it in news 16.
anyet alqualonde asks: so how will charisma fit into that?
mickey brunner says: it used to factor in a lot more heavily, but not so much anymore.  but that's one thing i'll be changing.
anyet alqualonde asks: so what will it do then, aside from the mana pool and mana regen?
mickey brunner says: you lost me.
vyraal vywrath says: she wants to know what all with charisma effect.
vyraal vywrath says: or have a role in.
mickey brunner says: oh.
vyraal vywrath says: will, sorry.
mickey brunner says: that stuff isn't going to change, that i know of.  although i don't know what randall's plan is.  i'm just covering the combat side.ˇ
mickey brunner says: this meeting is all about the fighting.
anyet alqualonde says: ok.
anyet alqualonde says: just wondering how charasma would facter into fighting again, if that is what you meant.
mickey brunner says: as part of the person who's getting deliberately shot in the head's roll to not get deliberately shot in the head.
anyet alqualonde says: ahhh.
mickey brunner says: which is sort of related to the change i'm about to bring up next, but i'm not quite there yet.
mickey brunner says: also, at trevor's request... vitality will be a lot more important.
mickey brunner says: just throwing that out there.
mickey brunner says: and you'll hear one reason why, in a moment.
mickey brunner exclaims: important because body part destruction is going away!
mickey brunner says: destroying critical body parts (head, abdomen, chest, etc) won't arbitrarily kill someone or something anymore.
mickey brunner says: it will produce negative results, but you won't be hunting with a headbutt/bodyslam macro anymore.
you say: sure ruin the importance of face shooting.
mickey brunner says: hannah wants 'groin' added, but i've not heard any final word on that.
xavain gramorham asks: ooo, can i get a horse and be the headless horseman?
you ask: to be more serious, where does that play attacks like backstab and assassinate?
you say: play being place, woops.
mickey brunner says: assassinate will probably just change to accomodate the change.  i'd have to hear trevor's opinion on backstab.  again, we'll anticipate every weird situation possible.
mickey brunner says: or attempt to, etc.
mickey brunner says: because we'll invariably forget something, someone will yell at us, and we'll fix it.
mickey brunner says: anyway, this makes hit points basically the way to take someone out.  so, vitality.
autae satyr asks: are you going to change anything with hidden combat?  attacking a seen hidden person, taking away roundtime for pointing, adding roundtime for being pointed out??fl
mickey brunner says: oh, and the random critical-deaths will stay.
mickey brunner says: i haven't thought that far ahead for visibility stuff yet, but it's something to be conquered when engagement is fixed.
mickey brunner says: and by 'fixed', i mean 'improved any level beyond engagement as it stands right this second'.
mickey brunner says: engagement right now is like the stuck-fourth-shopping-cart-wheel on every other system it touches.
mickey brunner says: the one with the little piece of lettuce stuck to it.
autae satyr says: well, as it st
mickey brunner says: i didn't know pointing at a hider gave roundtime.  but i never do it, either.
cryten blackstone says: yea what he said.
xavain gramorham turns to autae satyr and asks: is that only in combat?
autae satyr says: if i hide behind a bush and you see me go there, you can still shoot at me.  anyone with common sense who sees you go behind the bush wouldn't be like i lost you i need help.
autae satyr says: it gives round time.
vyraal vywrath says: if you hide x and autae points you out.
vyraal vywrath says: he gets a round time.
xavain gramorham says: i point at people when not in combat and don't get roundtime, it's why i asked.
vyraal vywrath says: he is trying to say.
vyraal vywrath says: if he points you out.
vyraal vywrath says: he shouldnt have a penalty.
vyraal vywrath says: and you should.
xavain gramorham says: wasn't sure if it was a combat only thing.
vyraal vywrath says: since you were pointed out.
xavain gramorham turns to vyraal vywrath and says: i got all that.
autae satyr says: last time i was in the grounds and pointed someone out, i got 3 seconds.
xavain gramorham says: combat only.
xavain gramorham says: gotcha.
mickey brunner says: if you're getting roundtime from the actual act of pointing, it should (in my opinion) be removed.
mickey brunner says: searching, yes.  but not pointing.
autae satyr says: that's what i'm saying.
mickey brunner says: stealth is abnormally broken where engagement is concerned.
autae satyr asks: and for being pointed out, you should have maybe 2-4 seconds of scramble time...like oh shit i just got found what do i do?
mickey brunner says: maybe.  because arguably there's someone trained to say 'oops, gotta kill you now'.
autae satyr asks: why would said person hide in the first place?
mickey brunner asks: snipers, just off the top of my head?
autae satyr says: if they're so cocky, they don't need to hide from anything.
xavain gramorham says: if i have a rifle in hand and you point me out, better believe i'm shooting your ass.
autae satyr says: so you're penalizing higher perceptive people to point out something attacking them.
you say: what does this have to do with mickey's combat plans. no offense and all.
xavain gramorham says: he's already agreed that if there is a roundtime, it should be removed (should not will) and that would equalize thigns.
autae satyr asks: because it's combat related...sealth combat is combat...isn't it?
hannah channing says: ignore me.
you say: yes but this isn't 'give reccomendations to mickey' time, it's 'hear mickeys wet and wild combat revamp manifesto'.
xavain gramorham turns to hannah channing and says: impossible.
autae satyr asks: it's a meeting with questions and answers? i've heard other questions...why try to shoot me down when i have input?
you say: i'm oppressing you.
hannah channing says: stop it. let mickey speak and then any question will be adressed.
hannah channing says: be respectful guys.
autae satyr says: i said my word, others had words for me...not my issue.
hannah channing asks: understood.  lets all be quiet and listen to mickey which... is it just me or did he get quiet when i walked in?
anyet alqualonde says: you seem to have that stunning effect on people hannah.
mickey brunner says: i was mentally prepping all my best pick-up lines.
hannah channing says: ah.
hannah channing says: carry on.
mickey brunner says: next on my list is an engagement rewrite, which i sort of already started talking about.
mickey brunner says: for instance, i bet you guys would like something where you're actually engaging and disengaging when you want to.
mickey brunner exclaims: with a working hangback!
anyet alqualonde says: yeah.
>
mickey brunner exclaims: another big change: melee vs ranged.  now with balance!
mickey brunner says: if you have a gun, this is the part where you go 'goddamnit, mickey!'.
mickey brunner says: or a bow.
anyet alqualonde asks: do tell?
brenton miller says: no gun.
xavain gramorham says: several guns.
mickey brunner says: for instance, and i implemented code for this like last year and just never went through with the change...
anyet alqualonde exclaims: gun monger!
cryten blackstone (unknown) projects: lots of guns!
vyraal vywrath exclaims: go go go go!
layne sereshira (close) projects: was anyone awake for the combat meeting?
vega shadowknight says: damnit.
vega shadowknight asks: anyone have that meeting recorded?
vega shadowknight says: i kinda lost track at the gun part.
zanquin firestarter says: that was rough.
layne sereshira (close) projects: bren mil you owe me karma of equal or greater value in return however.
layne sereshira (close) projects: damizznit.
layne sereshira (close) projects: this is crazy.
layne sereshira (close) projects: sparta is kind of harsh don't ya think? grar.
vega shadowknight says: what the hell.
vega shadowknight says: issues.
vega shadowknight says: its all hannah's fault, it started when she showd up.
layne sereshira (close) projects: if the combat meeting restarts i'd appreciate a shout-out.
mickey brunner says: whew.
layne sereshira (close) projects: so many yet so quiet.
mickey brunner says: man.
vega shadowknight says: all hannah's fault.
xavain gramorham says: incredi-lag.
mickey brunner says: i don't want to postpone in mid-meeting, but i don't want to try fighting through this a sentence at a time either.
brenton miller says: alright, well, scrap this whole combat thing and do something else. like racecars.
xavain gramorham asks: was there anything said after the
mickey brunner says: i did that once.
brenton miller exclaims: vroom vroom!
mickey brunner says: except the cars fought too.
mickey brunner says: a sentence or two.
mickey brunner says: and i was the only one in the room by the time they came out.
layne sereshira (close) projects: brenton miller couldn't stand stiller....
xavain gramorham (close) projects: none of us can.
layne sereshira (close) projects: i can. i tied myself to the lighthouse. i am going down the the ship baby.
brenton miller (close) projects: you ain't all that!
layne sereshira (close) projects: nope.. but i'm everything else!
xavain gramorham (close) projects: gotta love a woman that knows how to go down.
brenton miller (close) projects: aw snap. he went there.
brenton miller asks: are you guys here or lag-out ghosts?
xavain gramorham says: here, i think.
vega shadowknight says: im here.
xavain gramorham says: it's hard to tell.
lysenthir zelune (far) projects: so is this combat meeting going on tonight?
you say: i'm here.
autae satyr says: i'm here.
you say: and not lagging at all.
xavain gramorham (close) projects: it was, kind of waiting to see if people can stay awake or not.
autae satyr says: i'm fine.
brenton miller exclaims: tell me your secret!
layne sereshira (close) projects: he shouldn't get excited though. when i go down i don't come up, it makes for awkard social situations to say the least.
vyraal vywrath says: here.
you say: i'm awesome and you're not.
lysenthir zelune (far) projects: that's what she said.
vega shadowknight says: i dont think i am anymore either.
vega shadowknight says: nope.
layne sereshira (close) projects: ohhh girl... you mean.

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HR-Mickey
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Joined: 24 Nov 2002
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Location: I've Got No 'billy

 Post Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:01 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
mickey brunner says: - a that.


A that!

I'm going to reschedule a followup/recap/conclusion here when RL permits.
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Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
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Xavain



Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Posts: 157

 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:54 pm    Post subject:
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HR-Mickey wrote:
Quote:
mickey brunner says: - a that.


A that!

I'm going to reschedule a followup/recap/conclusion here when RL permits.



Just wondering if the follow up has already happened or is it yet to be held?
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