Mulecrats.

[HR-Trevor]

In the very near future, the Bureaucratic benefit of no commodity hit will be only available to level 2+ characters. It was never intended that people could roll up a character only to use to sell stuff without any work put into that character.

In the live game and maybe even in the test at some point, this will probably be raised to a level 5+ or so requirement.

It should be noted by the way that the returns you get from a Bureaucrat don't vary a lot now, but as characters boost their levels, persuasion and charisma you will see very big differences in what one 'crat can do for you vs. another.

And BTW, I'll also be adjusting how the market works here and there until it looks good. Right now I feel it has a tendency to get high, and in fact, I've watched folks go from being thrilled at $5 a unit rates to almost ticked off if it goes below $9. That to me is a bad sign.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[Brokyn]

Would it be possible to wait off on making it a Level 2+ ability until we've at least one Bureaucrat at that level? I could be wrong since I'm going off of the Topscore, but I don't think we have any at the moment.. the main reason being that hunting's one of the main courses of experience at the moment, and Bureaucrats probably don't have the spare points to be putting into combat-y skills.

--William, a lowly Guardian
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Haelrahv Wiki!
++Brown Nosing Points

[Chris Crosshair]

From what i know from being on all week, theirs only two bureaucrats that are on a great deal of the time me and kelasa and i'd prefer you waited a few weeks so we can get our stats up and hopefully a few more bureaucrats will appear.
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- Chris Crosshair

[Kelasa]

Aye I second that, I'm on a great deal and Kelasa is my main character but because of the time-on penalty I don't get much exp.. specially where I just rerolled to change her looks.

Kelasa

[Brokyn]

Just to provide my common random interjections: I haven't actually noticed any time-on penalty, to tell you the truth.

--William
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Haelrahv Wiki!
++Brown Nosing Points

[Kelasa]

If yer gonna limit the level that Bureaucrats can sell without penalty, how about giving bureaucrats the ability to gain experiance from selling?

Kelasa

[HR-Trevor]

Yes, I'll buffer some time so that those interested can work on their levels. As far as experience for selling stuff.. I'm not really for it. Experience on the whole is not hard to get, though I admit it's a lot easier in combat than out, which isn't fully intended (it is to a point due to the risk)

Anyway, it seems entirely reasonably that a Bureaucrat can work on foraging or preparing components etc in between selling, though I know you guys tend to hang out at the ticker like a guard dog to prevent solo sales.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[HR-Trevor]

Amazing how fast I can change my mind. <g>

Okay, Bureaucrats who sell commodities will now get experience based on how much of that item they are selling. You don't get more or less from selling things 1 or 24 at a time. It's not a lot of exp, but if you're selling a lot, it will definitely kick in.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[Chris Crosshair]

See this is why you were always my favorite GM on MO Trev. Besides Zak hehe *whistles*
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- Chris Crosshair

[Kelasa]

All hail Trevor! He is god!

Thanks Trevor!

Kelasa

[Kelasa]

Well first I'm going tae ask if trevor got my private message this morning, Second, I think level 5 is more then outrageous, it is hard for a bureaucrat to get exp, I had played for basically 5 days total and at most had 25k including the exp I had before rerolling. I know that when I informed a person about the bureaucratic ability they snidely insulted me, then with me saying I can sell, snicker at me then goes and sells the exact items I had just announced for everyones benefit. That type of behavior ruins EVERYONES fun, and to me is not acceptable. I told my friends who was purposely taking the market down, and after that it is not my fault what happens. If the other players get upset at people not selling through a bureaucrat, why should the bureaucrats be the one punished? Now I realize that there may have been one of our profession taking the active lead, but I myself have been trying to HELP people more then hindering and yet I'm being punished by this change.

Kelasa

[Brokyn]

25k experience in just 5 days? It took me 11 just to get 30k, and that's including the 1k bonus experience from one of those crashes. Granted, I was off on other characters a few times to test different systems and to guage racial bonuses.. but I digress.

That amount of experience in 5 days is more than enough; if you can find the post I made with leveling calculations (though it was made back when we were told we were getting 5 exp a minute instead of ten.. just double everything), if you constantly gain experience over the period of four hours -- which I thought a reasonable average, given most peoples' schedules and whatnot -- then it should take you roughly ten days to gain a full level. You're well ahead of the curve, and with a Bureaucrat's less-than-spectacular avenues of gaining experience. Neat, huh?

Anyway.. on your so called punishment. The ability is fairly cheap if everyone and their brother can roll up a Bureaucrat and not have to worry about getting them leveled or even trained (with the exception of Charisma for those three extra bucks; yes, I tested it.. heh). Setting it at a Level 2 minimum at least ensures that the person has spent some kind of effort on the character. Personally, I'd rather it be a higher level requirement, maybe 3 or 4, but certainly not 5.. at least for this preview's sake.

So you're probably not the most effective hunters in the world, so what? You can still forage all day, even with just two trainings in ecology, not to mention mine. These two options are nothing but constant experience; you will hardly ever fill your experience pool by just these two actions (unless you did both together, I suppose). Nothing is wasted, and you'll surely make a nice profit at the end of the day.

Not to mention that, in the full version, you'll have the Law System to help you out in the beginning (though I doubt it'll help that much). And there's that whole bank account interest stuff that grows with your level.

--William
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Haelrahv Wiki!
++Brown Nosing Points

[Kelasa]

You have to realize that from 12 hours + of playing per day for 5 days..

[HR-Trevor]

We need to step back and realize a few things about this situation.

- The economy is not meant to rely on Bureaucrats. Bureaucrats are meant to help it, not carry it.

- It's no harder for a Bureaucrat to level than anyone else.

- This change was put in because frankly, low level PvP is not very balanced and there are no higher level characters to handle any conflicts.

- Some people just don't want to sell through a Bureaucrat and this is life. Just like the wounded aren't obligated to rely on Medics and the guy with a box doesn't have to rely on an Agent. Sure this is a little different in that this persons actions harm others, but the bottom line is, it's their choice. It's also your choice if you want to seek revenge in some manner or if you want to just ignore these people and get on with what you're doing.

The bottom line of this reply is that Bureaucrats are not going to be treated any more or less fairly than anyone else, and no special perks in treatment or policy will go to players just for being Bureaucrats.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[webbingbarb]

Greetings, what a way to put in a first post . Anyway, the whole commod market confuses me. Why not just make certain things "prescious" and have the values work off of a fluctuating scale, where the rest are just a base price per unit, and have the crats get a small bonus to sell for others? This way people who don't feel like having a crat sell for them don't have to, but the ones that use a crat to sell can still reap a small amount of benefit from it. That way people won't go running around kicking the living crud out of each other cause they "ruined" the price. Just sounds like a more reasonable way to settle the market thing in my eyes.