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streetwise/tracking - why two skills?
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: streetwise/tracking - why two skills?
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in other words, i've always found it silly that tracking and streetwise are two separate things. their primary abilities are being able to find something in a rural or urban setting, and i can't [personally] get why it's broken up into two things. i think in a skill point limited environment, requiring people to have to train up two things to be observant of the world around them is a bit unfair.

while i wouldn't be shocked if this is more a "yeah we might do that in Live" type of situation, i really would love tracking and streetwise to just combine into a general "observation" or "awareness" skill.
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Brokyn
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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:40 pm    Post subject:
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With Agents and Trackers still getting bonuses in appropriate environments, right?

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject:
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i guess!
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Seth Ventril
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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject:
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I support this.
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HR-Mickey
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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:07 pm    Post subject:
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I think that the two skills embrace a very distinctly different application in their use. Following someone's footprints and trail through broken branches and scattered leaves is significantly different than asking someone on a city block if they'd seen x person lately. In addition to that, there various existing systems that make use of each skill in its own context; if anything, an observation skill would be added -on top- of tracking and streetwise. Consider that there aren't separate checks/skills for stealth elements where you'd either (drawing from d20 D&D) Spot or Listen (Hide, Move Silently) for hidden persons. Things could certainly be worse.
This is on top of the premise of a limited skill point system in the first place -- to cause a player to have to consider just what their character will and won't be good at. Just being an inconvenience to training isn't justification enough to rewrite a chunk of the existing skill system, and calling it unfair is at least minimally contrived when we don't represent combat defense (Combat Defense), magical/psionic training (Eldritch Knowledge), instrument use (Musical Theory), firearms/pulse (Ballistics), or other similar cases under a single skill heading either.
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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:39 pm    Post subject:
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i don't see it as an inconvenience as much as a frustrating limitation to accomplish a limited scope of things.

in your examples, i [personally] feel that each skill/group of skills cited perform enough to warrant their own separate usages. ie: there are lots of types of guns, pulse guns, blunt weapons, bladed weapons, and so on. beyond that, you need only one to function in pretty much 100% of situations. the same goes for magic and psionics. they are both robust enough to warrant their own groups, let alone have enough differences in functionality and form to make sense as being in separate groups.

meanwhile, i don't feel that streetwise and tracking are robust to the point where they should be their own separate things. with the exception of CASE, to my knowledge there is no difference between what tracking and streetwise accomplish outside of "this is for rural, and this is for urban," except for profession-based abilities.

and, in that scope, i don't feel there are enough situations presented in both settings to warrant them being in separate groups (clearly you feel otherwise). maybe if they each did more or there were more rural and urban situations where searching and scouting were capable of being used, i'd feel otherwise, but as of right now i personally don't think they really do that much.

beyond that, the HR concept of what rural and urban is seems a bit rough (which is another story), as well, because it relies less on an area's actual setting and more the type of materials found in the SURVEY.

IE: if a massive building only contains a tiny amount of man made material, it currently doesn't register as urban (at least to the point where an agent's stalking without RT bonus kicks in), while a man made cave (which to me is more rural) is also urban if it contains enough man made material. along with that, a busy road full of flora would count as rural, even if it was highly (and constantly) traveled in a manner that would (to me) cause it to be more urban.
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Brokyn
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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:44 pm    Post subject:
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Thread's a little moot. Yeah, I know moot is quite the non-word.

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http://www.haelrahv.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?p=52027#52027

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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:47 am    Post subject:
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Streetwise is actually intended for additional uses which is why in Live there is an "Awareness" skill and an Agent-only "Streetwise" skill.
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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
Streetwise is actually intended for additional uses which is why in Live there is an "Awareness" skill and an Agent-only "Streetwise" skill.


that sounds cool, too.
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HR-Mickey
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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:30 pm    Post subject:
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Coming in late, but I find it additionally poignant to point out that if Haelrahv didn't utilize such components as "urban" and "rural" (beyond non-coded abstracts), there'd arguably be no point of professional distinction between Agents and Trackers.

And new spoiler while I'm at it: One of the new elements (coded prior to this thread) of the hush-hush Justice system utilizes Streetwise, and another is slated to.
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To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject:
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i love the idea of street smarts (aka: streetwise) as it's own thing.

the thing i'm not fond of is how knowing if someone will ambush you, or go into hiding, or etc being based on one skill or the other depending on location.

but yeah, streetwise being the city-smarts and awareness being for searching and other general observation skills sounds awesome.
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Apatheticloser
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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:38 am    Post subject:
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Bah, you went from less skill needs to more yaru. Streetwise, Awareness, Tracking..
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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject:
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Apatheticloser wrote:
Bah, you went from less skill needs to more yaru. Streetwise, Awareness, Tracking..


no i didn't.
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Apatheticloser
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 Post Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:52 am    Post subject:
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I see your point, you would leave out the other two, and just train awareness, while I'd be training three now. ҿ

I don't think there should be a need for an awareness skill. Thats what perception is.. and if you need a skill to balance off a stat, why not just use stealth? if you can be sneaky, you can find sneaky.
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 Post Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:26 am    Post subject:
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Apatheticloser wrote:
I see your point, you would leave out the other two, and just train awareness, while I'd be training three now. ҿ

I don't think there should be a need for an awareness skill. Thats what perception is.. and if you need a skill to balance off a stat, why not just use stealth? if you can be sneaky, you can find sneaky.


streetwise should (and will be) for agent-oriented city-based abilities (like CASE), while tracking will be for things that are more tracker oriented (i think), while awareness will be for anti-steal, searching things, etc.

if you're a tracker or agent, you'll still train both if you want to work best in all situations. if you're neither, then you'll only have to train one in live as opposed to two.

this is how i understand it at least.
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With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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