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Assult Rifles
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject:
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Moka wrote:
What makes marksmanship so special?


markmanship weapons, in a tradeoff for occasionally/rarely jamming, hold the most ammo, hit the hardest, and have very short load times. the multi-shot markman weapons hit harder than the bows or pulse versions and hold a ton of ammo. if they were easily available they'd probably hold less, shoot worse, and jam more often. but i'm not a GM so i could be wrong here.

limited edition merchant items, in general, can be better than the easily bought counterparts as a tradeoff to being so damn expensive and hard to come by. the ability for a markmanship weapon to shoot multiple bullets is seen by the GMs as something that is very important not to have around often because of how much damange they feel they can do.
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Moka



Joined: 09 Jul 2005
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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:09 pm    Post subject:
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I am not being negetive. I am just asking a couple of questions that no one seems to want to answer.
I just want to know why multi-shot marksmanship weapons are merchant only and other skill based weapons that have multi-shot are not.
And if you look I started this folder some time ago and this is the first time GM's have responded.
I am not tring to be rude and I do not think I am being emotional. I am just asking why. What is the reason that assault rifles are made so rare and not easy to get. A few people have stated that the weapon itself is not all powerful and that other weapons do more damage.
I am not looking for a weapon of mass destruction. My shotgun does one shot kills often....if I just wanted max damage I would be content with that.
Max damage is not what I am asking for.....I am just asking for an assault rifle....like the starbow....3 to 5 weak shots that do a little damage nothing compared to my shotgun that does massive damage.
How is that negetive.....if you decided not to put assault rifles in shops because they are soooo powerful they are gamebreakers and wanted to limit them I wish someone would just says so.
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Tao



Joined: 19 Nov 2002
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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject:
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Okies, you want an answer, here it is. I think Trevor didnt want it to be store bought and decided not to have it so. Trevor's decisions are law. Now I must hide and hope I dont get struck down by a flying eoshai. Heh.
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject:
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Let me try to give a reasonable and extensive reply here.

Marksmanship as a whole is troubling, because players who use them expect guns to be strong versus many other forms of weapons and players who don't want them balanced. When we create weapon lists, our primary concern is the damage-per-second of a weapon.

If a sword does 20 damage and has a 5 second roundtime, it does 4 damage-per-second (dps).

If a bow does 60 damage and takes 3 seconds to load and 5 seconds to aim, it does 7.5 dps.

If a gun takes 15 seconds to load 12 rounds, 5 sec to aim and does 100 damage, it does 16 dps.

If a gun takes 25 seconds to load 30 rounds, 5 sec to aim and does 100 damage on three shots fired at once, it does 48 dps. It does over 10x the damage of the sword.

You can see where this is spiralling out of hand. Now, what we end up doing to balance this out is a) add a jam rate of somewhere between 1% and 3% or so per shot, and we lower damage so it's way way below the 100 I used to illustrate above. This is for single shot guns.

So 15 seconds to load 12 rounds, 5 sec to aim and 35 damage equaling 5.6 dps.. or something. These are only rough numbers.

Now, if this were a multi shot gun, say 3 shots, I can tell you what we'd do. We'd divide that 35 by 3 then tack on a couple points so it's slightly better than the single shotter but not doing an insane 16.8 dps (5.6x3).

So 25 seconds to load 30 rounds, aim time 5 sec, damage ... say 12 damage... 5.76 dps. Or maybe 13 damage so it's 6.24 dps (notice how one point of damage makes such a different given in this context!)

Now that was all just to explain how we handle it.

A lot of people don't like this I'm sure. Why should a gun shooting 3 shots at once hit so weakly per shot? It doesn't make sense in the "realism" court. But obviously we can't just let realism take over and have people doing 17 dps while everyone with a sword does 4.

This controversy has been a good reason to avoid pumping a lot of multishot guns into the market. I hate to even offer them because people spend a lot of money to buy them and they get pissed off when they realize they use three times the ammo and doesn't obliterate everything in the process.

I've released a few, but this realism controversy has been the main reason you don't see many. This doesn't mean we won't have more available periodically.
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Moka



Joined: 09 Jul 2005
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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject:
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Thank you for the explenation. I understand to some point.
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zamde
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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:07 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
last fest had an assault rifle, which fired 5 shots. the fest before than had the TG23-X, which shot 2 shots, along with whatever the 3 shot one was.


NITPIIIIIIIIIIIICK: The last fest featured the rapid fire rifle, if I recall. The festival before that (or the one before THAT, I can't remember) had the assault rifle and the TG23-X together. I think. So the TG25 is actually like obsolete or something.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:08 am    Post subject:
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zamde wrote:
soundless wrote:
last fest had an assault rifle, which fired 5 shots. the fest before than had the TG23-X, which shot 2 shots, along with whatever the 3 shot one was.


NITPIIIIIIIIIIIICK: The last fest featured the rapid fire rifle, if I recall. The festival before that (or the one before THAT, I can't remember) had the assault rifle and the TG23-X together. I think. So the TG25 is actually like obsolete or something.


woops, right right.

two fests ago:
A TG23-X field rifle (2 bullets)
A heavy black TG25 assault rifle (3 bullets)

one fest ago
An AG5 rapid fire rifle (5 bullets)
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Moka



Joined: 09 Jul 2005
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:20 pm    Post subject:
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Well I just got the chance to try an AG5 rapid shot rifle. Got extra ammo all ready to go and went to fens. Took aim at my first target and low and behold I couldn't fire the weapon.

You carefully look over an AG5 rapid fire rifle.
It is worn upon the back.
Use of this weapon in melee combat requires proficiency in the blunt weapons skill.
Use of this weapon when fired requires proficiency in the marksmanship skill.
This weapon requires one hundred twenty trainings in the appropriate skill to wield properly.

Are all the assault type rifles like this? All geared to long term players?
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Tao



Joined: 19 Nov 2002
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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject:
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Moka wrote:
Well I just got the chance to try an AG5 rapid shot rifle. Got extra ammo all ready to go and went to fens. Took aim at my first target and low and behold I couldn't fire the weapon.

You carefully look over an AG5 rapid fire rifle.
It is worn upon the back.
Use of this weapon in melee combat requires proficiency in the blunt weapons skill.
Use of this weapon when fired requires proficiency in the marksmanship skill.
This weapon requires one hundred twenty trainings in the appropriate skill to wield properly.

Are all the assault type rifles like this? All geared to long term players?



I think it was only that rifle that had the 120 skill requirement, but I could be wrong.
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SoulTorn
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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:31 am    Post subject:
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The rifle in question was sold in a shop where all of the weapons had a skill requirement.(Nkehu has a maul from there that has a big requirement. Sweet ass weapon, though)

-Chris
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:19 am    Post subject:
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SoulTorn wrote:
The rifle in question was sold in a shop where all of the weapons had a skill requirement.(Nkehu has a maul from there that has a big requirement. Sweet ass weapon, though)

-Chris


yeah, i know the AG9-C and AG10-C i have require 40 marksmanship each. that maul required what, 200?
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
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Tao



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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject:
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SoulTorn wrote:
The rifle in question was sold in a shop where all of the weapons had a skill requirement.(Nkehu has a maul from there that has a big requirement. Sweet ass weapon, though)

-Chris


Yeah, that maul is sweet.
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Nkehu
bluntmaster supreme!


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 Post Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:36 pm    Post subject:
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maul requires 150
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject:
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Nkehu wrote:
maul requires 150


maybe that eolai tonfa/parry stick/whatever that had a bad app but pretty sweet sense stuff was the one that required 200.

anyway, hoping the next merchant has equally cool items. Very Happy
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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