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NPCs buying things for less over time?
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The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Crafting & Trades » NPCs buying things for less over time?
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Kit
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:49 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
and i gave my reasons for otherwise, and then trevor said he'll be looking into some things according to the data i gave him, and then you and aesal feel the need to keep commenting about how i should just hunt for who knows why....



Because hunting is the best way to make money and tailoring will never come close to making you what hunting can.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:29 am    Post subject:
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Kit wrote:
soundless wrote:
and i gave my reasons for otherwise, and then trevor said he'll be looking into some things according to the data i gave him, and then you and aesal feel the need to keep commenting about how i should just hunt for who knows why....



Because hunting is the best way to make money and tailoring will never come close to making you what hunting can.


...which is the point of this thread, me petitioning for it to be otherwise.

arggggggggggh ::claws at hair:: just stop trying to argue the obvious, that i want something to change.

yes, i agree that hunting can be the best way to make money. but that doesn't mean that i should make 1/3rd as much when doing craft stuff. that also means i shouldn't be able to craft things with skins and make money that way at a level equal to hunting (since that IS hunting) just because there aren't any skinnables for my level (which i'm HARDLY responsible for).

here is what hunting offers:
1) All Ultra-Rare items (save GMs sometimes dropping them around when a new area opens).
2) Rare items (save for fishing)
3) The most money

here are the bad sides of hunting
1) possible death

here is what crafting offers:
1) Money
2) Not dying
3) Item quality better than store-bought

here are the bad sides of crafting
1) less money than hunting

Now, there are two things to debate here. first off, death is possible while hunting, but is hardly happening that often. is that a case of hunters being very compotent or hunting not being that hard, who knows. but it isn't like hunting is as risky as people pose it to be.

second off, while i can agree that crafting can logically make less than hunting, it shouldn't make 1/3rd less hunting. now, this is a case of not just it being a non-hunting thing, sure. there's also the fact that i'm well beyond the level of all skeins and woods, but if that's the case there should be harder skeins and/or woods available. if that can't be done, then at least there being a skinable creature somewhere in the 80s or 90s should be available to hunt (since trevor mentioned it is easier to make a creature than a wood or skein, which i don't get but i'm no coder or okay).

so you're trying to argue the fact that i'm arguing something, which is silly. stop doing that. if you want to disagree, present an arguement that isn't "but that's not the way it is now", because that's the whole thing i'm arguing.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:20 pm    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
A few notes I can post immediately:

- Foraging is slightly more lucrative than intended.
- Woodworking is less lucrative than intended.
- Tailoring sounds like it might be a bit low also.
- Hunting treasure is overdue for an overhaul.


i know there's a ton of prep going on for the festival, new skill system, and homes, but when can i hope to expect the woodworking and tailoring making less than expceted" part fixed? i'd love to have money for two of the previous things mentioned that i'm sure you're busy prepping. Wink
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject:
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Yaru, I think it goes without saying we're aware of your concerns.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:28 pm    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
Yaru, I think it goes without saying we're aware of your concerns.


didn't mean to come off as nagging. sorry about that.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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Tylen
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:00 pm    Post subject:
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Dang, this does suck.

Code:
>app back
You carefully look over a kashaga pelt backpack of exceptional craftsmanship.
It is worn upon the back.
It looks like the backpack will hold about 108 pounds of weight.
The backpack currently holds less than one pound of items.
This object may not be altered in any way.
You are confident that a kashaga pelt backpack of exceptional craftsmanship is worth close to $4,020.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>sur
Looking carefully at your surroundings, you note the primary composition of the terrain as a fair concentration of concrete and other man-made urban material and a fair concentration of dirt.
This area is greatly higher than sea level.
You can't tell what time of day it is from here.
 
It looks like you could forage some londrum here.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>
Merchants here will pay a premium for skins, hides and pelts.
Merchants here will pay a premium for containers.
Merchants here will pay a premium for clothing.
This area is under the jurisdiction of the government of Llanfair.
>sell backp
Rade Zlitri offers you $2,604.  Are you SURE you want to sell a kashaga pelt backpack of exceptional craftsmanship? (Yes/No)

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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:30 pm    Post subject:
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when it comes to skinning and tailoring, you're better off doing scroll cases always.

i've never seen a situation where tailoring a group of them gives more money per pelt than just tailoring using one at a time.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:43 pm    Post subject:
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by the by, while i do love that kucho can be skinned now, if i'm being semi-forced to skin them since they're at-level, do they really have to require 200+ skinning to not utterly fail each time?

i'm not sure why skinning reqs have to be so much higher from the reqs to hunt and disarm/pick boxes.

i don't think everything should just be handed to me, and i'm sure you're hardly thrilled that i'm always bitching about this stuff, and while i'm definitely sure that trackers should have a purpose, i'm not sure why skinning things has to be some phenominally harder than just fighting and opening their boxes.

can the skinning reqs be put more in line with the fact that skills cap out at 200?
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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Tylen
Alpha Antifemale


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 1192
Location: Not Colorado

 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:54 pm    Post subject:
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I wasn't tailoring for the money, just cleaning out my vault. But it seemed odd (considering Mickey's insistent posts about appraisal) that even though I was selling in a spot with a container premium, the merchant was offering way less than the appraised value.

Quote:
i'm not sure why skinning reqs have to be so much higher from the reqs to hunt and disarm/pick boxes.

...

can the skinning reqs be put more in line with the fact that skills cap out at 200?


I totally agree on that.
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** The phrase "break a leg" just wasn't ambitious enough for Mellie Knight. [8:31 pm]
** Mellie Knight was soundly defeated by Aesal Anari-Idia in the Zgedhi Gkenrzeg Rav! [8:31 pm]
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:02 pm    Post subject:
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to continue wording it better...

if i'm semi-obligated to hunt at level, then i should be able to at least be able to get a fair chance at having the skills required to get those skins.

if i'm going to constantly be behind what i need to skin something level-wise, then it isn't fair to make me obligated to skin at level. i'm sure that by the time i get the 200-whatever to skin kucho, i'll be so far above their level that i won't really get any reward out of it. i know that's the case with getok already, so i expect that to be the case with kucho.

it isn't that i don't want trackers to get something they're excellent at work out for them, but it isn't that they can't skin better, it's that everything skinning related is so far above the requirements needed for hunting at that level, so by the time a non-tracker CAN do that on his or her own, level-wise they're too good so they can't really make a profit out of it after all.

can skinning reqs be placed more in-line with combat and security reqs?

edit: and things never sell as much as what they are worth. the value is more what a store would sell them for, not what they would buy them for.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:32 pm    Post subject:
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Yeah....and the only reason I agree is that by the time I could get 200 in skinning I would no longer be able to find treasure from Kuchos because I'll be officially 25 levels above them.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject:
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Kit wrote:
Yeah....and the only reason I agree is that by the time I could get 200 in skinning I would no longer be able to find treasure from Kuchos because I'll be officially 25 levels above them.


it takes well over 200 skinning for kuchos. and you'll find treasures in kucho still. i think they're actually right on the point where people stop getting treasure find-penalties because there isn't much past them.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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Josie
Everyone wants to be me!


Joined: 14 Jan 2003
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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:57 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
Yeah....and the only reason I agree is that by the time I could get 200 in skinning I would no longer be able to find treasure from Kuchos because I'll be officially 25 levels above them.


I myself am approximately 25 levels above Kuchos at this moment. I am constantly finding treasure still. And yes even I mangled a few skins, with my skills I got approximately (this is skinning carefully mind you) 21 exceptional 5 nice and about 5-6 mangled.

Though I can see where people might not like the fact that skinning a kucho is above their level, which i agree it is. I can also see where they are trying to maybe perhaps make it to where professions have to work together *shrug* would i be upset if it got reduced, heck no... but im not upset its as difficult as it is either.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
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Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:11 pm    Post subject:
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i'm not against profs having to work together, but i am against the reqs for one critter's one aspect being phenominally higher than the others.

if it took 250 combats to kill something, 250 security to open, and 250 skin to skin, and it would take a merc, agent, and tracker to work together to have those kinds of skills, then it would be cool.

but if i have to get kucho hides to tailor (because otherwise i'm penalized) because they're at my level, then i should be able to have a fair chance to skin them at my level.

i'm just able to start skinnin getok. i've been getting penalized for hunting them though who knows how long ago. by the time i can just start skinning kucho, i also expect to be penalized by that time as well. so i'd actually have to be hunting the next critter, but i won't be able to skin that one until i again am so high above it that i get penalized for skinning them.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:20 pm    Post subject:
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The skinning reqs vary a lot with the -value- of the skin. In most cases, if we made a skin easier to obtain, it would be worth less than it is now. Would that be in your favor? For Yaru, yes. For Josie, no.
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