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SolitaryTurnip
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Your mom (burn)
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 Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: Combat Forum 04.22.05 |
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Trevor Rage says, "Hello everyone! Tbanks for coming to this forum to discuss our combat system. I'm going to make a few comments and points to get us started and then I will take questions and comments from those who wish to bring something forward. At any time you can enter a question or comment in queue by typing ASK <what you'd like to say/ask here>."
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Torrent Amore'z arrives through a rippling portal that then quickly vanishes.
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Trevor Rage says, "As virtually all of you here know, we have been making many alterations to how the combat system works. Some of this is still going on, but given the amount of changes, it became clear to me that we should talk about how combat fits into Haelrahv as a whole and what we can do to make sure it's an enjoyable part of the game for some time to come."
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Trevor Rage says, "So, tonight's mainly going to consist of me fielding questions you have about the changes or direction of combat, and you giving suggestions and ideas of improving combat as a whole to be something you'd personally enjoy more. This meeting is for all aspects related to combat, from how spells work, to unarmed fighting, or using ranged and melee weapons. Feel free to ask about or comment on utility abilities like stances, meditations, and so on too."
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Trevor Rage says, "Feel free to comment or ask about the engagement system too, and Marduk or I will reply to those questions or comments."
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Trevor Rage says, "After the forum is complete, I will be posting a questionnaire. I'm going to ask that everyone who would like to see changes to the combat system in some form use this questionnaire as a means to be heard and felt as we progress with updates. Your input on this questionnaire will give us a better idea of how you feel combat should work."
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Trevor Rage says, "Finally, I'd like to announce that we will be releasing many new things to fight ranged from the high 20's in level up to nearly level 100 of varying alignments to fill in some holes in the available hunting spots. I'm currently personally developing a number of new game features to accompany these new creatures. This should be a very fun and exciting addition to the world of Haelrahv."
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Trevor Rage says, "And with that, I'll begin working my way through the queue! Again if you have questions or comments, you may use the ASK verb to place your question or comment in queue."
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Tao Shadowstalker is next.
Tao Shadowstalker asks, "How come i get stuck in missle range when i try to engage a critter and its not engaged on me?"
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Trevor Rage asks, "When you say you get "stuck" are you referring to cases where you're told something like the engagement system isn't enabled?"
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Marduk Etemmu suddenly appears from thin air!
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Marduk Etemmu says, "You won't advance past missile if you're hanging back at missile."
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Tao Shadowstalker says, "No, i was hunting kucho and it would engage it then it would stop and missle range, even tho i try to engage it again."
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Marduk Etemmu says, "You won't advance past missile range if you're hanging back at missile."
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Tao Shadowstalker asks, "Hanging back?"
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<HANGBACK STOP>
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Trevor Rage asks, "Hangback allows you to try to keep from being engaged. Were you using hangback?"
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Tao Shadowstalker asks, "So this hangback doesnt auto turn off if you arent in combat?"
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Marduk Etemmu says, "No."
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Tao Shadowstalker says, "Last time i used it was during the elemental invasion."
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Trevor Rage says, "No it's sort of like saying "from now on I want to try to avoid melee combat.", so you have to turn that off when you wish to stop trying to avoid melee."
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Trevor Rage says, "Almost like you'd use SET. It stays until you direct otherwise."
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Tao Shadowstalker says, "Okies."
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Tao Shadowstalker says, "Thank you for clarifing that."
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Tao Shadowstalker smiles.
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Trevor Rage nods.
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Tao Shadowstalker sits down.
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Marduk Etemmu says, "Yes."
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Trevor Rage says, "Currently not all of the creatures out there have been changed over to work with the engagement system. They're being converted over time so they all use the ES."
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Mina Ophine is next.
Mina Ophine asks, "Will the new engagement system be applied to all perps or will some automatically be at melee like chiths are?"
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Trevor Rage babbles incoherently.
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Marduk Etemmu says, "Yes."
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Earthheart Dominato is next.
Earthheart Dominato asks, "What effects the round time on my weapons the most? what can I do to shorten it to safer time?"
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Trevor Rage says, "Strength and coordination. Training both will allow you the lowest roundtimes possible. However, there is a limit to how fast a weapon can be used."
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Earthheart Dominato grunts.
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Earthheart Dominato sighs.
Earthheart Dominato sits down.
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Yaru Dex is next.
Yaru Dex says, "A few creatures are still not set to engange players, like Paladins and Nowbi. Will they (and we) be required to advance on them soon? As a missle user, I definitely would like to get my few shots in before running away like a sissy nancy."
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Yaru Dex grins.
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Trevor Rage says, "As soon as we are able to convert them to use the ES, yes."
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Yaru Dex says, "Alrighty. It's just hard to test things out if I'm at melee getting pummeled on."
Yaru Dex winks.
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Trevor Rage says, "We're working on it."
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Trevor Rage smiles.
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Casidine Compos is next.
Casidine Compos says, "You be putting combinations together for fighting that would effect balance and stances."
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Yaru Dex exclaims, "That's all then!"
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Yaru Dex sits down.
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Casidine Compos says, "I am new here."
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Trevor Rage says, "Thanks for that feedback. I have many times considered this but we've not (obviously) put this in at this point. I'd say it's more due to the time required to orchestrate than anything else. I'm sure it would be a welcome addition."
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Trevor Rage says, "Welcome to Haelrahv."
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Trevor Rage smiles at Casidine Compos.
Casidine Compos says, "I notice that even though i got tired i was still balanced."
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Trevor Rage says, "Yes, your balance is more based on your agility, the particular attacks/weapons you're using, and whether you hit or miss, defend or fail to defend."
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Casidine Compos says, "Weapon get heavier when tired."
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Trevor Rage says, "Generally, success breeds more success in terms of balance in combat."
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Casidine Compos says, "Ok."
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Trevor Rage says, "Some attacks do augment balance more however, and can be used to gain balance, so in that respect we do have combinations that may prove more effective."
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Casidine Compos says, "But is a thought."
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Trevor Rage says, "However, there is a maximum level of balance you can achieve based on your agility."
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Trevor Rage nods.
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Casidine Compos says, "Thank u for yourttime."
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Casidine Compos shifts his seat.
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Trevor Rage says, "Thank you."
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Trevor Rage smiles.
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Saving your character, one moment...
Your character has been saved.
Trevor Rage asks, "Those saves have great timing, don't they?"
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Niaobi Damalis is next.
Niaobi Damalis asks, "Why is it that I have 200+ in spell casting and have trouble casting a simple spell?"
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Trevor Rage asks, "Well, there's two issues here. Is it a simple spell? Probably, which spell is it?"
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Trevor Rage says, "I think Niaobi is afk."
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Niaobi Damalis says, "For instance Jolt or lightning bolt, I still have trouble casting it and it says I am having problems controlling it and etc."
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Trevor Rage says, "Every spell cast has a chance of failure, about 5%. No matter how well you know it. This is akin to the chance to botch a defense against easy stuff in combat."
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Trevor Rage says, "Fortunately, when you botch an easy spell however, you won't blow yourself up doing it. That can only happen on challenging spells."
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Niaobi Damalis says, "But the weakness of the spells are ridiculously low."
Trevor Rage says, "So, it's essentially a minor annoyance about 5% of your casts, that serves mainly to just keep you honest and remind you you're not completely beyond a mistake here and there."
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Trevor Rage grins at Niaobi Damalis.
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Trevor Rage says, "I'm going to examine spells yet again very soon, after the questionnaire. Part of the questionnaire is geared specifically toward Mages and asks you how you'd like your spells to perform."
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Niaobi Damalis says, "And even when I cast fortifying spells, sometimes they backfire and cause nerve damage.. I mean to me its ridiculous."
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Trevor Rage says, "Right now, spells do more damage than they get credit for though. They simply do lots of small damage instead of one or two hits of major damage. That aspect is part of the questionnaire so we can get the opinion of Mages. So I hope you'll fill that out."
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Trevor Rage says, "One of the things I need to explain is that everything in combat is a series of trade offs."
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Niaobi Damalis says, "Mages are meant to be powerful, not too powerful... the same thing with psionics. And the spell book thing... with mages spells should come natural."
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Trevor Rage says, "For instance, some weapons are harder to hit with, but they hit for more damage when they hit. Some weapons are easy to hit with and do good damage, but they're slow, and so on. Every weapon has a set of positives and negatives to balance it out. So it is with spells and spell casting."
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Trevor Rage says, "In reality, your spells do about two to three times more damage per second than many weapons. The chance of failure is one of the tradeoffs for that power."
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Trevor Rage says, "As to spell studying, I'd rather not get that far off track from combat and that's more of a Mage/Psi issue than combat, but suffice to say I have covered that topic in great detail on the forums with very specific numbers and tips for working that feature in a manageable way."
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Trevor Rage says, "Thanks, Niaobi. Please do participate in the questionnaire."
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Trevor Rage smiles at Niaobi Damalis.
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Niaobi Damalis says, "Dont worry I will."
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Niaobi Damalis sits down.
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Acosae Eshai is next.
Acosae Eshai says, "Are there any plans to add in a DOUBLESLASH-esque move for pierce/blunt attacks? I understand not wanting to make everything a mirror image, but I figured I'd ask anyway."
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Trevor Rage says, "Maybe. Then again we may simply add a blunt attack that does one hit still but much more damage, or one that targets specific body regions. I'd hate to see every weapon class have the same set of attack models, but I'd like to see more attack methods."
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Trevor Rage says, "However, piercing does have IMPALE which is quite nice."
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Acosae Eshai nods.
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Trevor Rage says, "In fact, one of the new creatures you'll all run into soon uses rather large weapons and impales."
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Acosae Eshai says, "I found IMPALE the other day. I guess my nvutus just aren't up the snuff, because I'm still only getting fair/slight damages on asapi. Of course, this isn't factoring in the post-attack bonuses and what not you were discussing on the boards earlier."
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Trevor Rage nods.
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Trevor Rage says, "Some attacks also have other hidden aspects beyond just direct damage too, keep that in mind."
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Acosae Eshai nods.
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Trevor Rage says, "It's best to really experiment a lot with any attack you have in your arsenal."
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Acosae Eshai says, "Alright, thanks. I'll throw my other question to the end of the queue."
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Acosae Eshai nods to Trevor Rage.
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Acosae Eshai sits down.
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Trevor Rage says, "By the way, Casidine asked earlier about combos. I forgot to mention earlier that something I'd like to implement is reactionary effects in combat. What I mean by this is for example, let's say you're using paired weapons and you go to trust at one right as another has just finished reaching melee. I'd like to give you the chance to automatically do a special version of thrust instead that hits both targets. So, special attacks based on timing."
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Trevor Rage says, "Or for slash you might instead do a circular slash and hit both the opponent you had targeted and the new opponent that just reached melee, and so on. Just stuff to mix it up and let you fight with more tactics."
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Faith Evermound is next.
Faith Evermound says, "In terms of the combat adjustments are all professions feeling the effects or is it just the mages and guardians."
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Trevor Rage says, "Well, we're certainly trying to make sure everyone feels change in combat, and hopefully overall for the better."
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Marduk Etemmu suddenly disappears!
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Trevor Rage says, "I would say that every profession has had some complaints and praises. The only profession not really included yet are Psionics because their powers have not been rewritten for NSKILLS yet but that's coming. And even Psi's have felt the changes to focus regen/pool."
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Faith Evermound says, "One more thing if i may add...."
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Trevor Rage nods to Faith Evermound.
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Faith Evermound says, "Are the luck items even worth it any more they seem pointless with the new treasure system changes."
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Trevor Rage asks, "Well that depends. Do you consider it worth it if you have a 10% higher chance of a box instead of a former 50% chance?"
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Trevor Rage says, "Those aren't actual numbers. But what I mean is that you still gain more loot/better loot from them. It can't really hurt to use those can it? Unless you have some fantastic item to use instead of course."
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Trevor Rage says, "So, are they "as useful" as they used to be? Absolutely not and that was what we intended with changing it. But they still help, without a doubt."
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Trevor Rage says, "Thanks Faith."
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Sean Fiachra is next.
Sean Fiachra asks, "I was wondering what factors affect the speed of advancment. I've noticed sometimes I can get to melee quickly, and sometimes it takes me a while to close the missile pole gap. I was wondering which factors affect the speed of advancement. In the range of self (stats, skills profession), condition (hiding, hurt) and target and terrain (water or land, critter level, critter abilities). I was wondering really what I can do (I know this has been a pressing guardian question) to get to melee faster?"
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You hear the voice of Marduk Etemmu say, "This is all changing in the next week or so, I'll be posting on it then."
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Sean Fiachra nods.
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Sean Fiachra chuckles.
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Sean Fiachra says, "That was easy then."
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Sean Fiachra chuckles.
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Sean Fiachra nods.
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Trevor Rage says, "Currently I don't think terrain affects advancement but that's subject to change at any time."
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You hear the voice of Marduk Etemmu say, "It will."
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Marduk Etemmu suddenly appears from thin air!
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Earthheart Dominato is next.
Earthheart Dominato asks, "Whats stance is best for exotic and unarmed and magic?"
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Marduk Etemmu says, "All of them and none of them."
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Trevor Rage says, "Stances don't affect magic. As for exotic and unarmed, it depends on your goals. Some stances increase damage, some lower it. Some increase roundtime, some lower it. Some modify critical hit rates. Some affect balance. Some affect stun or knockdown."
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Trevor Rage says, "None of them boost those skills specifically."
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Earthheart Dominato says, "And also balance recovery, since I get knocked on my can alot."
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Earthheart Dominato shifts her weight.
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Earthheart Dominato clears her throat.
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Trevor Rage says, "Agility training is your best bet there. Medics can also help you with balance."
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Earthheart Dominato says, "I need to lower my rt because i get hurt or gangbanged when im immobile."
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Earthheart Dominato says, "Not sure which would help balance out damage versus rt."
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Trevor Rage says, "There's some postings and lists of stance info out there. We've been tight lipped about the actual effects of stances, but some experimentation or asking friends will help you there."
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Trevor Rage says, "I will say that every stance has tradeoffs."
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Trevor Rage says, "If it improves one thing, it will lower something else. The exception is self-taught which is neutral."
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Earthheart Dominato nods.
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Earthheart Dominato sits down.
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Trevor Rage says, "You can use self-taught as your baseline. Compare stances to self-taught. Do I have more roundtime? Do I knock down opponents more? And so on."
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Thorne Darkheart is next.
Thorne Darkheart asks, "Which stats affects accuracy more when THBPing with ranged weapons, mentality or perception?"
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Marduk Etemmu says, "It's yet to be determined. Coordination and perception for sure, likely mentality for ranged."
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Thorne Darkheart asks, "So ya saying its jsut best to keep it all equal?"
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Marduk Etemmu says, "It can't hurt."
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Trevor Rage says, "You're going to need them all for ranged at any rate."
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Trevor Rage says, "THBP is "to hit body part" -- It's your chance to strike a specific body area."
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Trevor Rage says, "For everyone else wondering."
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Trevor Rage grins.
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Thorne Darkheart says, "Thanx."
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Thorne Darkheart sits down.
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Trevor Rage nods.
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Mina Ophine is next.
Mina Ophine asks, "Will there be some creatures that will automatically charge to melee when someone enters the room or is found in hiding?"
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Mina Ophine stands up from a leather chair.
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Trevor Rage says, "There might. Our creatures are getting increasingly intelligent."
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Mina Ophine nods.
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Mina Ophine says, "Sounds good."
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Mina Ophine grins.
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Trevor Rage says, "Marduk and I have both worked on aspects for new creatures to make them do new things. You'll seem some interesting intelligent behavior soon."
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Trevor Rage says, "Thanks, Mina."
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Trevor Rage smiles at Mina Ophine.
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Mina Ophine says, "Welcome."
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Epolon Walei is next.
Epolon Walei asks, "I'd like to understand the goals of the combat system relative to the other means of economic generation in the game. Currently, for pure cash Foraging is by far the best means, but is also the least interactive. Hunting is very interactive and though some have automated this, I belive most do not. Hunting does provide opportunity for rares and ultra rares, but the current changes in conjunction with the box drop rate changes has changed the dynamics of hunting. Is it the intent that combat be a method of wealth generation that is on par with the other means, such as foraging and fishing? Or is the intent of combat different?"
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The golden flecks in Mellie Knight's eyes flash brightly as they catch the light.
Trevor Rage says, "I'm glad you brought this up."
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Epolon Walei smiles at Trevor Rage.
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Trevor Rage says, "First of all, foraging is not intended to be a better money source than combat. This will be changed in the near future. And when it is, we'll hear the collective bitching of every forager. So be it."
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Epolon Walei chuckles.
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Trevor Rage says, "However, combat can also be incredibly lucrative for some and dismal for others, regardless of level. This is a vital point to address too, and we will."
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Trevor Rage says, "The questionnaire includes questions related to your overall goals as a hunter, and how wealth factors in. We'll use this feedback as we work on these changes, so try to make combat rewarding for the most players possible."
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Epolon Walei says, "The value of hunting has decreased with the changes, due to length of time to make a kill, in conjunction with the drop rate."
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Trevor Rage says, "We do have a few goals, but much of combat is open-ended. We want to make it what -you- want, as long as what you want is fair. So, the questionnaire offers several fair options and asks you to tell us which appeals to you most."
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Trevor Rage nods.
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Epolon Walei nods to Trevor Rage.
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Epolon Walei sits down.
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Trevor Rage says, "As I noted when we started these changes, combat treasure will be balanced out too. It will happen once we feel pretty good about combat itself in terms of balance."
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Acosae Eshai is next.
Acosae Eshai says, "Are there any plans to bring back the grid-based engagement system? In Live, I mean."
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Acosae Eshai says, "You know, because a lot of us loved that thing."
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Acosae Eshai nods to Trevor Rage.
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Trevor Rage says, "Globally, no. It's very resource intensive and it isn't very manageable for daily use. But for limited areas, maybe."
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Acosae Eshai says, "Aw. Well, if it shows up anywhere, I'll be happy."
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Marduk Etemmu says, "It was fun for football. It would have been a nightmare for anyone trying to use it for combat."
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Trevor Rage says, "Areas where positioning are more vital due to some special goal."
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Acosae Eshai grins.
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Trevor Rage says, "Thanks."
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Kuro Vadn says, "I have a few guardian questions, but it's too long for The Wizard's command line. Sooooo I'll ask this and state them later."
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Trevor Rage nods.
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Trevor Rage says, "Fire away."
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Kuro Vadn asks, "Should I fire off all 3 questions at once, or do you want me to do one and then go to the end of the queue?"
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Trevor Rage says, "Whichever you prefer."
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Kuro Vadn says, "Alright, I'll just do them all, heh."
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Kuro Vadn says, "1) Is leap going to change with other ES things? It's cool, but the roundtime that leaves you helpless at melee gets pretty annoying. Without water, I've seen it be 8 seconds for me. Also, it'd be neat if it displayed where you landed after a leap."
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Kuro Vadn says, "Water being the Water Meditation."
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Marduk Etemmu says, "Yes it's going to change. And the RT is intended to leave time for your opponent to get in an attack. That's the tradeoff for being able to advance instantly."
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Kuro Vadn nods.
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Kuro Vadn asks, "2) The light meditation + pole range attacks seem to be a little weird lately. I tested some last night, and it seems that they're doing more damage than they used to... well, okay, not MORE... but now they do the same as normal attacks, whereas they used to do less. In fact, with uppercut, I noticed that it was doing MORE damage at pole than at melee. Was this a fluke, or did they change lately? Also, you get the "your fist erupts with light" message at pole, but not at melee, is that how it should be?"
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Marduk Etemmu says, "That's Trevor's fault, I'm sure."
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Marduk Etemmu says, "I'll look at it."
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Kuro Vadn nods.
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Kuro Vadn says, "Aaaand, last one."
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Trevor Rage says, "Im not aware of any reason that would occur but it sounds like meditation light is simply not being recognized at melee, which is not intended."
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Kuro Vadn says, "3) It'd be cool if Guardians had little mini-stances... like if you did a certain attack, you'd get bonuses/penalties for a very short time. Maybe a certain kick would decrease evasion/parry, because your foot would be in midair, but if you did another kick it would be stronger and have a good chance of hitting the head, or something."
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Marduk Etemmu says, "That wasn't a question."
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Kuro Vadn says, "Oh, sorry... I'll fix it."
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Kuro Vadn asks, "Don't you think that <what I said> would be cool?"
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Trevor Rage says, "We'll keep that suggetion in mind. Be sure to fill out the questionnaire too, it has some Guardian stuff."
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Kuro Vadn says, "Alright, cool, thanks."
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Kuro Vadn sits down.
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Trevor Rage says, "Thanks."
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Trevor Rage smiles.
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Sean Fiachra is next.
Sean Fiachra says, "Will there be higher level skinnable critter somewhere in those new releases you mentioned? By higher I mean 70-100."
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Marduk Etemmu says, "Eventually."
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Sean Fiachra nods.
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Sean Fiachra says, "Thanks."
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Sean Fiachra sits down.
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Trevor Rage says, "Well, yes, kind of. The stuff in the near near future is high level, but oddly not especially great for skinning. But I did try to fill in some gaps in the skinning line in terms of difficulty."
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Trevor Rage says, "It looks like the queue is empty, and Marduk needs to run. Great timing! Thank you everyone for your questions. I'll post that questionnaire very soon and announce it. I hope you all fill it out."
>
Trevor Rage glances around the room and the unusual feeling of calm leaves you.
>
Trevor Rage says, "You may now all breathe." |
Zoom! Oh, and if you have something that makes ambient messages, I hate it. I cleaned it up as best I could.
Last edited by SolitaryTurnip on Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Good heavens that was a fast posting. 
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy |
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the blue fairy
Grandmistress
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1049
Location: my own hell
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Vhen for the log, I missed the meeting.
_________________
Mellie Amresh says, "Send someone with a bigger dick."
A set of breast implants fall from the sky with a soft plop.
Caretaker Jornnoj Vunn looks up at the sky.
A passing guard suddenly shits himself. |
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Warner
Sneaky Locksmithiness
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 213
Location: The Armpit of the Universe
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:43 am Post subject: |
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where can the questionairre be found?
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>You allow Stilldawn to undress you. |
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:47 am Post subject: |
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http://www.haelrahv.com/questionnaire.php
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy |
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