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What I really want to see.
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The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Medics » What I really want to see.
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HR-Phoenix



Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 104
Location: Titan City, Haelrahv

 Post Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:59 pm    Post subject: What I really want to see.
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Yep, throwing this one out there as the growing trend of asking what the players want rocks the boards. Much is in the works, coming soon and perhaps have everything covered but I'd like to hear...

What do you hate about other healing practices in other games.

What you would love to see, and do within the medical field.

Anything else you would like me to ponder over.

~GM Phoenix~

This is open to all, and not just the future medics Smile
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balihai



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 44

 Post Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 9:31 pm    Post subject:
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Please talk more about what you plan to have..

Here is my big major concern...

So, you train your wondrous medical skills. It's what you're really good at, what you enjoy doing, and furthermore..your character's life's work.

But then your completely dependent on other PC's to use those skills, and to gain EXP.

So...are we going to have NPC's to train on? Are we going to have clinics go work in? Explain how Medic's are going to work in a way that doesn't make their life's work completely dependent (Both for money AND EXP) on other PC's.


Me personally,....I would love to see an NPC clinic or something. The bureaucrats will have NPC court cases, so it really doesn't seem to far off for this game.

Here are some suggestions..

NPC Clinic - Medics are provided with various cases where they need to provide diagnoses or treatment. Early on, cadavers could be provided here for practice of surgical technique and also to study anatomy.

PC Clinic - A place where PC's can go to recieve treatment, BUT Medic's get paid for their time from the CLINIC's money.
Perhaps eventually (Certainly after a long period of time) a bureaucrat and a throughly licensed physician would be able to join up and start their OWN Clinic. The bureaucrat would have to apply for all the proper funding.

PC EMT - A Medic signs up to get on the job. I'm willing to bet there will be phones, or other contact devices on Haelrahv. A Medic would be transported to a patient in the field via ambulance or other vehicle. The Medic gets paid for said EMT service from the JOB. The PC patient racks up a bill with the particular place/hospital/state.


Morgue Work - A Medic could work training a pathology field at the coroner's office, trying to determine cause of death.


Anyways, those are some suggestions. I'd absolutely love to hear more of what you've got in store for this field.

~Laura


[/b]
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Durinthal
Arr!


Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 122

 Post Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 10:53 pm    Post subject:
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From what I read somewhere else, medics can fight too. They're like a combination of empaths and clerics.
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Dragoonseal



Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 326
Location: Shaded alcove

 Post Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 11:01 pm    Post subject:
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Plastic surgery.

Ya heh, two guesses to were I got the idea from.
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 11:54 pm    Post subject:
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My personal thoughts, tho I'll leave this issue to Phoenix to figure out...

NPC's to heal are nice, but they also give a medic less reason to want to heal players. Since healing medics can do far outpaces any other healing method, players will definitely want the help of medics.

Also, medics can do above and beyond a normal empath role. They can "rez", they can fight/hunt if they wish, and they can pick up pretty much any other skill from trade skills to alchemy and magic, to about anything you can imagine. They also will be able to create medicines that I'm sure will be in demand.

Medics are far, far less limited than empaths in GS or DR.
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balihai



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 44

 Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:44 am    Post subject:
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I understand that you don't want NPC's giving Medic's an easy way out...

I also understand that Medic's aren't nearly as limited as healing classes in other games...

I'm just hoping that if someone doesn't want to hunt that they won't be pushed into a corner of hocking their goods to a PC market all the time. Being dependant on PC's for money or experience can take the fun out of a game. I'm not saying that their best way of gaining experience shouldn't be working with PC's. I agree with that completely. However, there should ALSO be a way without PC's to gain both money and experience.

That's just my feeling on this.
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:59 am    Post subject:
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I guess... let's look at this way.

There's nothing that forces medics to heal players. There's everything to force players to need medics to heal them. This creates situations like the current ongoing problem in DR where players -expect- empaths to heal them and empaths don't want to heal anyone. I have sympathy for both sides.

What I'm most afraid of is that we'll end up having to release other ways to heal injuries because medics aren't available enough. We certainly can't have people playing half dead all the time because they can't get healed, and I've felt the frustration many times in DR ... waiting in the empath guild for 30 minutes here, an hour there, to get healed, asking very politely, very nicely and not often, for some healing.

If anyone has a perfect solution to meet both sides in the middle, I'd love to hear it. Wink
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HR-Hunter



Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 564
Location: [Deep Wilderness Shrine, Haelrahv]

 Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:46 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
If anyone has a perfect solution to meet both sides in the middle, I'd love to hear it.


Maybe npc run emergency rooms that will only admit you if you're hurt badly enough for it to be an "emergency"?
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:37 am    Post subject:
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Maybe npc run emergency rooms that will only admit you if you're hurt badly enough for it to be an "emergency"?

Unfortunately, here's the scene I experienced in DR:

- Go hunting, come back with minor wounds.

- Go to disarm boxes, minor wounds cause failures from time to time and
major wounds.

- Go to get healing, can't. Wounds aren't life threatening, but several activities are out of the question until healed.

In this scenario, I would possibly be on a grey line as far as being injured enough for the NPC. We have a few options...

- Anything so bad a medic would have to heal it is considered bad enough a NPC can too.

- Anything life threatning is considered bad enough.

- Damage to any one area of 75% maximum, even if not life threatening, is bad enough.

Now, there are also a couple of things we can do differently that I think would help:

- Speed up the healing process. In GS3 it is extremely easy to get healing from players, as empaths can heal people incredibly fast. In DR, many empaths available heal incredibly slow by comparison (of course high level empaths do much better, but still far shy of GS3 usually). We might strive for something between the two, perhaps, or leaning toward the fast side.

- Lessen the penalties associated with injury. This can't be done on everything, some injuries are just way to severe. But the penalties to say, picking a lock, could be lessened a bit on minor and moderate wounds.

- I don't know if this option would go over.. but a government subsidy for healing. Healers receive payment in their bank account for healing others, from the government. This has the unfortunate side effect that players may tip less, but the upside that non-tippers, extremely low tippers (esp. new players) will not affect medics as adversely.

I should state though, that I do like NPC healing options if we can balance them. Players need variety and choice. One option we could use, would be to limit how many medics can heal NPC's at any given time. I don't know if this option would be popular or not.

Thoughts on any of the above are welcome. Unfortunately, I have very little GM experience on this topic, as anyone who's played MO for any length of time knows, there never was a true healing profession in MO, even when there was a more rigid class system with the Coroner class, they never had enough medical advantage to have a role in MO. And, to be perfectly blunt, most of my player experience is from the customer end.

Empath is the one profession I never even tried in DR. I played one in GS a little, but never was into not being able to hunt effectively. Wink I see some folks that have posted seem to likely have significant empathing experience, and your opinions from that side of things are very useful. Smile

<-- Usually the warrior, rogue or occasional magic / bard type.
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HR-Morrigan



Joined: 06 Sep 2002
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Location: Trooper Tower, Titan City

 Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:21 pm    Post subject:
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Well here's my two cents on the whole issue....

Clinics will house both PC and NPC medics. First line of healing goes to whatever PC medic is in the room and available, and of course willing to heal Smile Then you can go to the NPC and pay for services, probably won't be as quick a heal either. Here's the twist...Medics get a cut of what other PC's pay the autopath. They can register with a clinic and can only be registered with one clinic at a time, if they are register, they get a kickback from NPC business. This way PC's still get healing and Medics can still have lives outside the clinic and not feel slighted for NPC medic work.

Morrigan Blackfury
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HR-Myst



Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 68
Location: Haelrahv

 Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 2:08 pm    Post subject:
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I think Morrigan is on to something in her post. It can work both ways. There could be NPC medics and patients. They could be generated whenever necessary. If PC patients are scarce, NPCs can start rolling into the emergency rooms. If PC medics are in short supply, NPCs could be generated. I think we could balance this out in an emergency room system. Preference would be given to PCs. As soon as a couple of PC medics come on the scene, the NPCs can take a break.

Myst
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balihai



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 44

 Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 2:14 pm    Post subject:
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<<Myst's and Morrigan's Posts>>

See, THAT would alleviate ALL my fears. Smile
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HR-Phoenix



Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 104
Location: Titan City, Haelrahv

 Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 2:44 pm    Post subject:
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Part I

Friends, Romans and Eolai Medics... lend me your ears... umm ok

Lets take a look at these concerns,

Having to heal people to learn medical skills is not the way it is, to advance you have to gain X amount of EXP, foraging, healing or fighting - end of the day EXP is all the same in the general form of things. For those thinking "Hmmmmmmm?" let me put this forward, would you rather spend your day digging in the dirt looking for flowers over and over because thats what you need - or do something that you want to do?

I do believe there is a folder talking about skills and how experience is earned for those who not know what I'm talking about, and if not "Where ya been!"

Healing NPC's has been talked about and pondered, its been a kinda "Maybe" for a while. MY personal feeling here is that Haelrahv should be a roleplayers haven, kinda like platinum and very social with other players. So healing NPC's that is - is not set in stone or anywhere near it - its very much a real possability. I'd rather go hunt then heal NPC's, EXP is all the same and I want to lead a full life and get as much as I can from the experience.

Reliant on other players? - I don't really think so, everything is very much in the favor of medics so far.....

Ok must end part I a moment, Part II coming within the hour, juggling RL here!

~Phoenix~
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 4:20 pm    Post subject:
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Phoenix and I have been discussing this some and I know she has more to post. But... I completely disagree with a couple of things.

Paying kickbacks when NPC's heal players: Why? It only rewards medics for choosing to not help others. It would make more sense to reward medics for healing players somehow, than to reward them for not helping them.

Requiring NPC's to be available for medics to heal: Why? If medics don't need players, why should players need medics? If you have no way to get healed with exception of perhaps a costly NPC healer, you're dependent on medics. Medics on the other hand, wouldn't be dependent on players at all. The only way to justify NPC's is to lessen the "special" aspects of medics (making the class weaker) by giving players more ways to heal themselves, because as-is, some injuries can only be healed by a medic and/or npc medic.
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balihai



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2002 4:31 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
Having to heal people to learn medical skills is not the way it is, to advance you have to gain X amount of EXP, foraging, healing or fighting - end of the day EXP is all the same in the general form of things. For those thinking "Hmmmmmmm?" let me put this forward, would you rather spend your day digging in the dirt looking for flowers over and over because thats what you need - or do something that you want to do?


Okay, so..now I feel pretty stupid. When I read that stuff over before, it registered..but apparently not completely.

::coughs: Er, I'm a tool. Carry on.

~Laura
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